TexasCHLforum.com

srothstein wrote:The reason you cannot use this as a comparison or argument for or against citizen open carry and gun snatches is the other important characteristic of these deaths. They each occurred during an arrest attempt. As a citizen instead of an officer, you should not be putting yourself in that situation.

That is exactly what I said in the beginning of this thread.

srothstein wrote:My personal opinion is that we should allow open carry but not require it. If you think it is safer, you get to make the decision to carry. If you think it is dangerous, you get to make the decision to carry concealed. After all, isn't the freedom to make our own decisions what we all are really trying for?

100% Correct.

Here are some interesting facts for the history of Texas Officers:

Total Line of Duty Deaths: 1,552

Accidental: 5
Aircraft accident: 12
Animal related: 4
Asphyxiation: 2
Assault: 51
Automobile accident: 138
Drowned: 16
Duty related illness: 10
Electrocuted: 1
Explosion: 2
Exposure: 1
Exposure to toxins: 1
Fall: 6
Fire: 2
Gunfire: 929
Gunfire (Accidental): 40
Heart attack: 46
Motorcycle accident: 67
Stabbed: 36
Struck by streetcar: 1
Struck by train: 15
Struck by vehicle: 59
Training accident: 1
Vehicle pursuit: 42
Vehicular assault: 58
Weather/Natural disaster: 7

By Month:
January: 112
February: 121
March: 116
April: 109
May: 133
June: 150
July: 134
August: 130
September: 142
October: 107
November: 119
December: 179

Average tour: 7 years

Average age: 38

By Gender:
Female: 17
Male: 1,535


929 to enemy gunfire, but it does not tell you if their own weapon was used or not. I only looked at the first 100 or so and found none of them was killled with theiir on weapon.

Flint great job and applying the statistics! There will always be someone that wants to argue the facts, but you put them down where if an Elementary student can undertand the statistics. I am slow and putting the math together and I could undertand each point very clear.
Thanks

I agree partly with you. But, when you try to count what has happened to the Police it is not counting how many were trying to arrest, etc. . . I think a lot of the folks (against OC) think the Bad Guy is just going to walk up and attempt to TAKE your pistol. It may happen if the Bad Guy is trying to escape from court, jail, etc. . ., but I don't think you will find one Policeman who lost his gun standing in line at the local 7-11 - if you know what I mean.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:Meanwhile, I'm trying to find data on how many of the approx. 500000 cops in America get shot with their own guns each year. This has not proven to be easy. The FBI gives stats on how many cops are killed or injured in the line of duty, and on the type of weapons used, but they do not seem to list whether a gun was the perp's gun or if it was taken from the cop.

This should be exempt from the debate as the debate is Open Carry as civilian not LEO's.

frankie_the_yankee wrote:

carlson1 wrote:

frankie_the_yankee wrote: You must be or have been an LEO. I would assume that most of the time you were OC'ing you were displaying a badge of some sort.

I was LEO, but never displayed a badge. You are not required to do so in Texas.

Just curious. How often did other LEO's question your status? Was there some way they could tell you were an LEO? If not, it would seem weird to me that other LEO's would not initiate contact with you upon noticing that you were OC'ing, since it is illegal in TX for non-LEO's in most circumstances.

Good question, but I never was stopped or questioned. The truth is in the smaller nows in Wood County I was known, but I was not know in Dallas, Austin, Etc. . . I think for the most part you do not expect to see Bad Guys walking around with guns in holsters on their belt. It has been my experience everyone I arrested never carried a gun in a holster always in their belt or pocket.

frankie_the_yankee wrote: You must be or have been an LEO. I would assume that most of the time you were OC'ing you were displaying a badge of some sort.

I was LEO, but never displayed a badge. You are not required to do so in Texas.

It would be interesting to know from the people who thin OC is such a disadvantage and they are so worried about their weapon being taken by the bad guy how many of them have ever Opened Carried? I Opened Carried almost every day of my life (in plain clothes) up until about 12 years ago and NOT one time did I have a problem. I have Opend Carried in Dallas, Houston, Austin (Assuming you consider those large cities), and small towns Tyler, Mineola, Quitman, Alba-Golden, Longview, etc. . . I have OC in the bad side of towns as well as good side of towns. As far as seeing how many officers have been shot with their own guns compared to citizens is not even a comparison. The police is placing himself next to the bad guy for an arrest the citizen is minding or should be minding his own business.

phddan wrote:

Stringer wrote:IF you could carry openly in Texas, would you? Do you think that's safer than carrying concealed?

I absolutely, unequivocally, without a doubt, most assuredly would carry openly.
There is no proof one way or the other whether it's safer or not.

Dan

Dan The Man I would not always open carry, but I would at times. I open carried a little over 14 years on duty and off duty and had ZERO problems. This has been discussed here many times it is no doubt