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Very well stated sir...

Here endeth the lesson...

Thanks Steve I thought that was the meaning of your post but as you can see others were trying to have it both ways...

lunchbox wrote:

Elvis wrote:Sound like it could be a conflict in law if you were lucky enough to find someone at DPS or an asst. DA at your Class B trial to go along with your logic. I am going to continue to teach my students they must display their license when required. Having been involved in a criminal case or two I can hear the argument going something like, “But I was using the exemption under 46.02 as a traveler” “that’s fine, but we are not charging you with a violation of 46.02, we are charging you with failing to display as required” “But I don’t want to be charged with failing to display as required” “Too bad, you should have just shown the Officer your CHL”

that right there is what is wrong with the legal system

That is the reality of the legal system.

Sound like it could be a conflict in law if you were lucky enough to find someone at DPS or an asst. DA at your Class B trial to go along with your logic. I am going to continue to teach my students they must display their license when required. Having been involved in a criminal case or two I can hear the argument going something like, “But I was using the exemption under 46.02 as a traveler” “that’s fine, but we are not charging you with a violation of 46.02, we are charging you with failing to display as required” “But I don’t want to be charged with failing to display as required” “Too bad, you should have just shown the Officer your CHL”

Go back and read the UCW law it clearly states:

Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who: 6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid
license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to
carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the
person is carrying.

So if 46.02 does not apply to a person with a Valid License I might go along with an argument that you are OK if your CHL license Is NOT Valid.

I understand that you are not required to tell the Officer you have a gun, only required to display the license, that is clear from the language. My issue is that you have a CHL, yet you are going to ignore the requirement to display your license because you choose to carry under the exemption of 46.02? Then why is G.C. 411.205 still on the books and enforceable?

An on a different note, I think we may have a difference of opinion on the law. You said in one post that a person with a CHL is always carrying underr the authority of the CHL when the pistol is on or about his person. This, IMHO, is clearly not the case if they are in a car, even if the gun is in a hip holster. As I understand it, a CHL only gives authority when the carrying would otherwise be illegal. Since the law was changed and it is no longer a violation of PC 46.02 to carry in a car, the CHL is not giving authority until they step out of the car. This may be a serious legal question if they are driving into a parking lot that is posted for 30.06. That law only applies when carrying under the authority of a CHL.

As proof that you CAN choose which authority you are carrying under, consider the cops who also have CHL's (it gets them through the NICS check for one thing). Which authority to carry are they using?

Now, I have to admit that the the law about showing us your CHL does not specify just when under the authority of your CHL. If that is what you meant (and it was in that context), the law is explicit that it applies if you have a CHL and a pistol on or about your person. It says nothing about authority. If I have a peace officer's license and badge, and a CHL, I would still be bound to show the CHL, even as i tell them i am also a cop.

Then are you saying there is no requirement for a CHL holder to notify the Officer if they are carrying in their vehicle because they now fall under the exception in 46.02?

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Elvis wrote:"Man with a gun" shouldn't be suprised if they find themselves staring down the barrel of my gun if I detect the presence of your gun and you didn't think it was important to let me know you were carrying, legal or not. It is a self correcting problem.

Prior to CHL (1995) and prior to legal car-carry (2007) this policy was reasonable. (It was never my policy during my 14 years as a police officer.) But if you are serious about this comment, perhaps you should reconsider. Pulling a gun on a citizen for that which is not against the law is a very risky policy, whether it's a personal policy or a departmental policy.

Chas.

Not my policy either sir. Merely a poor attempt to wake up those here at the possibility they will run into "Officer Bubba". I am finding out your participants in this forum do not scare easily!

OK it’s a new day and I finally got some sleep so let me attempt to correct some of the mis-understandings some of you are getting from my earlier posts. First I would like to Thank Mr. Cotton for allowing us the opportunity to discuss these topics and I enjoy a healthy and productive debate. Many of you seem to be reading my statements and picking out small portions that you don’t agree with and that is fine but try and absorb the overall points I am attempting to make. I am a Cop and the head of a small agency and yes it can be a tough area. I am a Father, Husband, Texan, Christian, American, CHL Holder, NRA/TSRA Member, Gun Owner, LEO Firearms Instructor, LEO Academy Instructor and you will find no one more concerned and considerate about the rights of the citizens of this Great State. I am new to this forum but not new to the issues you all care so passionately about. I am a CHL Instructor with over 3000 students attending my classes. I believe strongly in the rights of everyone to be able to legally defend themselves and have no sympathy for those that would prey upon us our families.

Now that you know a little bit about me go back and re-read this entire thread. The topic started off discussing the disparity regarding why CHL holders have to display their license and non-CHL holders do not. I am in agreement that this disparity is not FAIR. I expect the Legislators will address this issue and all will this will be taken care of. For now the law is that you must display your CHL when asked for ID and I think that is in the best interest of everyone involved. I attempted to give you a perspective of what LEO’s have to deal with on a daily basis. I have been accused of having a chip on my shoulder. Well I have been to too many Officers funerals in my career and that tends to do that to a person. Some here think I and other Officers will “Freak Out” if you tell me you have a gun. Any prudent Officer will assume that everyone we come into contact with is armed and has the ability to harm us UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE. My advise here has been prove you do not have the intention to harm the Officer by letting him know you are one of the “Good Guys” by displaying your CHL. It appears to me that some of you have had unfortunate contacts with Officers and for that I am truly saddened. Some of you may have been disarmed for no reason other than your status as a CHL holder and that is wrong. I can understand you not wanting to notify an Officer that you are armed in an attempt to prevent the Officer from disarming you and that can put a chip on your shoulder. I have heard the horror stories from my students and know Officers make bad judgments regarding your rights as a CHL holder. Trust me Officer Rothstein and I will attempt to correct that problem from our end. My purpose in posting here is to try and get the CHL holder to approach contact with law enforcement in a positive and safe manner.
I will continue to participate here as long as you will allow me and I look forward to many more healthy debates. One thing this thread has got me thinking about is Officer Rothstein’s point about when we carry under authority of the CHL and when we do not. Hmm going to have to do some research on that one…Elvis

Flint how do you propose we should treat someone with a gun. Run back to the car and leave? Stand there and hope for the best? Beg that they don't hurt us? I am quite capable of handling my safety and I understand the challenges of my job, I have been in a shooting and I have taken another persons life. I don't want to do that again but I will not allow anyone's arrogance about my safety to prevent me from going home at the end of my shift. Your statement is lost on me.

For the record I think it is a bad idea for Officers to disarm a CHL holder on a traffic stop. The fewer people that handle a loaded gun the better. If you tell the me you are armed I will ask you to step away from your vehicle if that is where you have it, or just ask you to keep your hands visible until you come back as clear and valid.

WildBill, the Officer will find out you have a CHL anyway so why not tell him upfront and then tell him the status of your gun, or lack of gun?

[/quote]the number say the officer is much more likely to be shot at by a non CHL[/quote]

No the numbers say the Officer is much more likely to be shot by a gun. After the fact the investigation will find out if the person had a CHL or not. The Point Is, everyone we come into contact with that is armed should be treated as a threat to our safety until the Officer is satisfied that you are not a threat.

boomerang wrote:

Elvis wrote:Your statement that in the car you really are not carrying under the provisions or authority of the CHL is not the case. Because you have a CHL you are carrying under the CHL authority anytime the handgun is on or about your person and you are in public.

Maybe they don't have a CHL like it says in the subject line.

boom, I am with you man. The point I was trying to make is you can't carry under authority of the CHL and pick and choose laws that suit your circumstances.

As a citizen you are very much entitled to tell your government how you should be treated. I agree that it isn't FAIR that someone get caught up in a speed trap and as the head of an agency I will not tolerate that behavior from Officers. Please tell me how you would like to be Policed. What laws should be enforced and what laws should be ignored. Officer discretion is an important tool and really the only tool we can use to correct unfair laws and unjust rules. My point is your attitude about the Officers safety is important. If you don't care or think it is fair that you have to show your CHL, that is telling the Officer that you don't care about his safety. Why then should he care about your safety?

sounds like life to me
maybe we dont see death every day but life sucks and then you die man
we all deal with crap in our jobs
you knew going in what was out there for you
yea i dont think you should get cussed out cuz you gave someone a ticket but i also dont think you should be out there to fill quotas and pay the high salaries of gov officials and catch more criminals


thats a rabbit im chasing sorry mods


I don't have quotas, I get to write as many tickets as I want.
Lunchbox, please tell me how I should be doing my job? Do you want LEO's to be pro-active or would you prefer we just come by when called to take the report and clean up the mess then go away.