"a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication"
Take notice of that little word "or" and the fact there is nothing specific that must be said to meet the letter of the law. When someone says, "No guns" they have given notice.
This is the fact that I have been trying to make here. It is a very dangerous section of the law that could land you into a world of hurt if you do not take note of it and understand what it means.
As a license holder, we are required to know & understand the laws surrounding our license to carry.
Forget the 30.06 posting requirements, when you are at work, it is what company policy stats or what you have been told by the company that matters... nothing else.
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- Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:34 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Who would quit their job
- Replies: 50
- Views: 6930
- Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:03 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Who would quit their job
- Replies: 50
- Views: 6930
Re: Who would quit their job
The law doesn't have to make sense to be the law.
- Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:42 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Who would quit their job
- Replies: 50
- Views: 6930
- Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:47 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Who would quit their job
- Replies: 50
- Views: 6930
Re: Who would quit their job
That is the point I am trying to make here.....Bart wrote:Written and oral are two different things.
Carry on company premises, and it's the policy that rules, not the signage. It makes no difference how it is stated within the policy. Carrying with a "no weapons" policy violates the law that you agreed to abide by when you obtained your CHL.
Don't misunderstand this. As an individual, walking into a business, the 30.06 or 51% signage is the guide. As an employee, the policy (regardless of the wording) rules.
By violating the policy, you have willfully entered an environment that has banned the carry of firearms. And that'll get you in trouble everytime.
- Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:09 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Who would quit their job
- Replies: 50
- Views: 6930
Re: Who would quit their job
The biggest trouble with the way the law is written is in the word "oral". This one word gives the owner (or their rep) the authority to simply say, "No firearms allowed". And we, being the law-abiding folks we are, must then depart or be subject to trespassing. This is true whether there is a "legal" 30.06 sign or not.
This section troubled me in my CHL class and it still gives me cause for concern.
As far as the 30.06 wording within the employee manual, that is not required to be enforced. You are an employee, not a visitor. Since you are an employee of the company you agreed to certain requirements to be employed. Non-disclosure of company secrets, network use policies & more than likely, that you have read & agree to follow company policies stated in the employee manual.
This would more than qualify as meeting the "oral" part of the law.
This section troubled me in my CHL class and it still gives me cause for concern.
As far as the 30.06 wording within the employee manual, that is not required to be enforced. You are an employee, not a visitor. Since you are an employee of the company you agreed to certain requirements to be employed. Non-disclosure of company secrets, network use policies & more than likely, that you have read & agree to follow company policies stated in the employee manual.
This would more than qualify as meeting the "oral" part of the law.
- Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:56 am
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Who would quit their job
- Replies: 50
- Views: 6930
Re: Who would quit their job
Like it or not, if your workplace has a no weapons policy, you CANNOT carry at work or on the property. Carrying on property could result in the loss of your job AND your license. And since it's a policy violation, NO UNEMPLOYMENT PAY.
PC §30.06.
TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
If it's in the company policy, regardless of the signage, employees are bound to the policy. Posted 30.06 signs only apply to visitors, not employees (maybe even spouses??? not sure)
Take carefull notice to the wording of the law, "...provides notice to the person by oral or written communication". Whether a 30.06 sign is present or not, if you are told that guns are not allowed, you must leave. Doesn't matter if it's a business or residence. It's a Class A misdemeanor if you stay.
Be very cautious with this section of the law. Our tendency is to take a stand and defend our rights. To do that here could land you in jail and your CHL suspended.
PC §30.06.
TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
If it's in the company policy, regardless of the signage, employees are bound to the policy. Posted 30.06 signs only apply to visitors, not employees (maybe even spouses??? not sure)
Take carefull notice to the wording of the law, "...provides notice to the person by oral or written communication". Whether a 30.06 sign is present or not, if you are told that guns are not allowed, you must leave. Doesn't matter if it's a business or residence. It's a Class A misdemeanor if you stay.
Be very cautious with this section of the law. Our tendency is to take a stand and defend our rights. To do that here could land you in jail and your CHL suspended.