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What I am stating, whether major retailer like Buds or small fish like me, PC’s, servers, routers whatever, are not connected in any way to the ATF. So, the only way the government can access is by illegally hacking into it. Could that be done? Of course, but illegal hacking by our government is a whole different issue that I’m sure FFL’s are not taking into consideration with their software.

KC5AV wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 12:18 pm

tk1700 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:28 pm

Rex B wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:16 pm tk1700, thanks for sharing that.

Questions:

What software system are you using for 4473s?
Is that (or is there) an industry standard, or are there other software packages for this purpose?
How does the system store the 4473s - a database, PDf, CSV etc. ?
Does it store information other than the 4473 - Photo ID scans for example?

Any other FFLs want to share your experience?

There are several companies that license software for gun stores. Ours is Merchant Magic. It writes a track in the bound book for every transaction of a serial numbered item, ie received in the store, sold, sent out for repair, returned to manufacturer, etc.

As I understand it, ATF has to approve the software before it can be used for firearms transactions. I don't know what all that entails nor do I want to know, lol!

They are stored as a PDF attached to the receipt for the transaction (sale or transfer). If we want to look at a 4473 from history we can find it with a serial number search or using the customers name and going to the receipt.

If a voting machine can phone home, why can’t an electronic 4473 terminal?

Explain to me how the ATF is hacking into my PC to access software I purchased to do firearm transactions. I don't think you guys understand the idea behind it. It's not a program run by the ATF, private businesses develop the software and FFLS buy it. The ATF is not involved in any of it except to approve it's use.

Paladin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:47 am

Rafe wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:34 pm with a CHL/LTC I don't believe it ever hits the system as an NICS check

True. The ATF is almost certainly capturing LTC purchase information with the electronic 4473, but that would not show up on the NICS check count.

The NICS number don't count homemade firearms either.

That's impossible, the ATF has no access to a gun stores computers. The FFL software is on the business computer that the FFL owns.

Rafe wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:34 pm

Paladin wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:42 am

Rafe wrote: ↑Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:27 pm The local plus import total for 2000 through 2019, then, would be about 215,418,585 newly manufactured firearms entering the marketplace, or about 10.77 million each year on average for the past 20 years.

That is a lot of guns!! I wouldn't be shocked if there were over 500 million guns in the US. Certainly the NICS checks show a whole lot more guns are being sold than produced, and the NICS checks don't apply to all transactions.

You've got all the dealer-handled transfers and such in there but--and one of you FFLs should correct me--even though we have to fill-out a 4473 for a purchase from a dealer, with a CHL/LTC I don't believe it ever hits the system as an NICS check; other states have similar license perks.

You are correct, they have no way of knowing how many transactions I've done with LTC holders except for multiple purchases (which I commented on already) and during audits(which they can look through them all during the audit).

Rex B wrote: ↑Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:16 pm tk1700, thanks for sharing that.

Questions:

What software system are you using for 4473s?
Is that (or is there) an industry standard, or are there other software packages for this purpose?
How does the system store the 4473s - a database, PDf, CSV etc. ?
Does it store information other than the 4473 - Photo ID scans for example?

Any other FFLs want to share your experience?

I'm an FFL and already spelled it out. There is no standard software, there are multiple software companies with their own product.

The ATF has been scanning 4473's that are turned over for years, even decades. They have so many there's a backlog waiting to be scanned. Keeping paper 4473's requires much storage space and many FFLS have gone electronic - including me.
Your info gets to the ATF in four ways (there are probably more than that but these come to mind). First, if you are in a border state and by multiple handguns or multiple semi auto long guns greater than 22 caliber in five business days. When you do that all your info and the gun info goes to the ATF and the chief law enforcement of her.
Second, when an FFL goes out of business all the forms go to the ATF.
Third, during audits the ATF can request copies of transactions and get 4473 info.
Fourth, if there are trace requests (I e. Gun used in a crime) the 4473 is sent to them.
Normal 4473's do not go to the ATF, they have no access to FFL computer systems. FYI 4473's are required to be kept for 20 years, after which they can be destroyed.