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C-dub wrote:Good morning everyone.

The problem, as I see it, is not that I think they were arresting the wrong people. They had the right people. It's just that they weren't breaking any laws. Doesn't those two circumstances make their actions unlawful? Of course, you are right Andy, and this particular incident is not worth blasting away and probably wouldn't be held up in court anyway if they had. However, what if they passively resisted this unlawful arrest and the police became violent with them? Most of us agree that the Trooper who recently slammed a woman into a concrete wall was excessive. if she would have some how been able to fight back and either disable or kill that Trooper would she have been justified?

Like Purplehood, I don't really push the envelope of what is legal and illegal, so I'm not likely to be in this situation. Even if OC were to become legal in Texas I might not do it. And if I were to OC it would be after discussing with my local PD their policy and how they would handle the inevitable calls and what I should do when they arrive. I would probably even check with other local cities I frequent and then I still might not OC.

AndyC wrote:

Dragonfighter wrote:

AndyC wrote:Well, one can't claim self-defense if one shoots a policeman who is going about his lawful duties...

Most state self defense laws provide for defending against excessive force by police officers, including ours

Note that I specifically said lawful - excessive force is not lawful, and I didn't see anything about those officers using excessive force.

C-dub wrote:True enough, but were these officers' actions lawful? That is the question!

C-dub, "lawful" doesn't mean that they have to have arrested the correct person, just that they performed the arrest legally - whether they got the right guy or to determine whether a crime was actually committed, that's for the DA to prosecute and then for the courts to decide. What do you believe was unlawful about their actions?

The officers might have been wrong in arresting the people in the first place (as I obviously believe they were) - but that's not unlawful per se.

Guys, we can't just haul out our blasters and blow away a cop just because we believe that they are wrong - you cannot claim self-defence for that.

dicion wrote:

miajaipi wrote:If police arrest people who aren't breaking the law, maybe the answer is to call 911 and report more people who aren't breaking the law. Armored car couriers. Armed security guards. Plainclothes cops. Especially feds.

He did say he wanted citizens to call 911 EVERY TIME they see a gun..

I guess that means Everyone!