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by Excaliber
Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:41 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Armed Teachers - what am I seeing incorrectly?
Replies: 24
Views: 3500

Re: Armed Teachers - what am I seeing incorrectly?

srothstein wrote:I support teachers being armed. I also strongly support the concept of a plan for what they will do when something does go down. For most cases, when there is a shooting, I suggest that the armed teachers stay with their students in the locked room. I understand that this has a flaw since I also doubt we will see a majority of teachers armed.

And for those who think the teacher will never leave his or her students, I would point out that almost every school of which I am aware has a plan for specific teachers to respond to trouble areas and handle or help handle it. This is true even in schools with police officers on campus. I know that most of these plans are based on students being involved in fist fights, but those teachers are most likely to be the type of person who would run to the sound of guns. I really don't have too much of a problem with this, IF the teachers are given training in how to handle these situations.

That is actually one of the few parts of the school marshal program I did like. The teachers all must get some training in how to handle these situations. A school can allow armed teachers without participating in the program by just writing a policy on staff members who have a CHL carrying on campus.

And for the Chief who is worried about his officers not being able to tell the good guys from the bad guys, I have a few suggestions. The first, and strongest, is to get better officers and give them better training. this was one of the arguments against CHLs way back when. It is simply not valid because officers need to be able to tell the difference in everyday life and cannot just start shooting anyone with a gun anywhere.

And, as a certified TCOLE trainer, I will offer to teach the class. It would probably only be about a five minute class. Using examples, I would simply show that the good guy is the one who is not shooting or is only shooting at one other person who is also armed and who obeys when you tell him to do something. The bad guy is the one shooting at other people indiscriminately and points his weapon at the officer when the officer yells a command.

I would have to acknowledge that the good guy may react wrong when under the stress of a live fire situation, but these are the guidelines I would teach.
I'm also a certified TCOLE trainer and teach active shooter response to the full range of personnel, from emergency responders to teachers, students, and company workers.

I agree with the criteria you outlined for telling armed good guys from armed bad guys. It's the same problem we're presented with in situations where off duty LEO's are involved, except the good guys in schools don't have a badge to display even when that would be possible. That isn't as big a protective factor as some believe. Studies by the Force Science Institute have found that officers who encounter someone displaying both a badge and a gun often see only the gun because the eye instinctively focuses on the threat.

I'll endure the inevitable sash and tiara comments to get another aspect into the discussion:

An easily observable visual characteristic that can be readily displayed during an incident, is visible from 360 degrees, and is known to the police and armed good guys but not to the general public would be really helpful. There are challenges with doing this as a number of police agencies have found, but it's another discriminator that can help prevent a tragedy within a tragedy.
by Excaliber
Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:28 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Armed Teachers - what am I seeing incorrectly?
Replies: 24
Views: 3500

Re: Armed Teachers - what am I seeing incorrectly?

chasfm11 wrote:
jmra wrote:What I'm hearing is some responses from people who have no clue what happens during a lock down.
I won't go into our procedures, but I will say that almost every plan I've seen has teachers with students locked in their room. Staff without students at that time have other responsibilities. Often this is going to be administrators and support staff.
If I were putting together the plan, I would strongly urge my admin and support staff to receive the proper training and to be armed as they are most likely going to be the first point of contact. Almost all of these individuals already carry radios which also helps in communicating current status.
I'm not opposed to teachers in the room being armed, but I will say that I know teachers with CHLs that would totally fall apart in a situation like this and a gun is the last thing you would want them to have.
I'm not a big fan of the whole shrink work up, but I do believe that employees who wish to be armed should go through some realistic active shooter training to see how they will react in stressful situations.

I understand your point but would counter that, in a life or death situation, may people seem to find a way to act in ways that the rest of us would not have anticipated. I don't disagree that teachers who are carrying in school would benefit from active shooter training but many LEOs receive a very limited amount of that same training. I'll always side with more training being better. But I'm not sure that it needs to be the minimum price of admission. As I've argued recently with others, there is little difference between being in the candy isle at Wal-Mart before halloween with kids as far as the eye can see, having a CHL and having a BG situation develop and being a school and having that same kind of situation develop. Churches, museums (Perot comes to mind) and other places where kids can and do congregate in number present the same problems as a school.

What I'm looking for in this thread are reasons why my position that the school is not really unique environment is incorrect. Yep, there are lots of kids but there are lots of kids at a church bible school, too.
It is different in that the density of people in the space is much greater than virtually any other environment, and the fact that the people are sorted into groups by age.

That being said, schools have much more in common with lots of other environments than they have differences, and the same type of tactics that are appropriate in other crowded environments are appropriate for schools.

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