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sugar land dave wrote:I see several LEOs and soon to be former LEOs each week. They are salt of the earth guys in my opinion, and I think humanity is well represented by them when you look beyond the veneer. That said, I feel safer around them than I do driving in the Houston traffic each day. That doesn't mean that I will deliberately be in front of their weapon, or that i will will pull onto the freeway in front of a speeding semi, yet if I must do one or the other, I know which I will choose under my lesser of two evils principle.

BTW, lest anyone misunderstand, I am actually finding a way to enjoy this conversation. Thank you, Excaliber!

I'm glad I could lend a hand here.

And I'm with you about that Houston traffic - that's why most days when I'm not traveling I stop at the park and ride and take the Metro bus into downtown. It might not be sexy, but it is relaxing, safe, and faster because it's HOV lane all the way with no speeding semis allowed.

By the time I get to work, I've caught up on all the news sites on my Blackberry, and there's usually a uniformed deputy or two on board doing their own commutes to make it even better.

sugar land dave wrote:Thanks for your replies gentlemen though I am not sure where we are now going with this thread. I always check my holsters and weapons before they go out the door of my home. I would presume an officer would do so also since his life might depend on the proper draw and firearm operation. As for dis-arming that officer because he goes into a crowded property, I would say that I don't much like 30.06 limitation, and I can't call for such a thing for those who serve.

Good leadership is about being able to make tough choices even when they are not popular, especially to yourself. Sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils without being paralyzed by second guessing yourself. The OP made a good choice when he moved rather than sitting with anxiety while eating. No one was harmed and he resumed his me
al. I just can't get myself from there all the way to disarming the police when there is a crowded civilian business.

I'm with you on not going the "disarm" route for police. It doesn't make sense for CHL holders, and it certainly doesn't make sense for police.

Unfortunately I can tell you from first hand knowledge that, while many officers are extremely professional and very conscientious about maintaining proficiency and the proper condition of their weapons and support gear, that is by no means universal. Any police firearms instructor can tell you true stories of negligence that would curl your hair, and lots of police locker rooms have the bullet holes to prove it.

I also wouldn't presume to tell an officer how to carry his firearm. That's not my business (anymore).

With all that being said, you won't find me knowingly sitting in line with the muzzle of anyone's gun - that's for folks with more of a desire for adventure than mine.

sugar land dave wrote:Guys,

If we, the pro 2A rights, carry in a holster is safe, guns don't shoot themselves group can't seem to agree on the safety of an LEO carry weapon, how can we expect the anti-carry people to not feel the way THEY do? Does anyone here know of a verifiable story of a gun in a holster going off by itself? If the maintained and holstered firearm in my otherwise empty pocket is going to discharge by itself damaging my leg or knee, then perhaps I should reconsider my CHL decision. If the IWB holster on my hip will not protect me from shooting myself while walking or sitting, then perhaps I have been wrong in my beliefs.

I am not here to be PC; if we are just pro constitution for the 2nd amendment, but reject the 1st, how are we honest and not disingenuous? I absolutely respect someone's right to disagree with me. They can even call me a bad name, and I will live, but that is not the point I make. Are we ourselves safe in everyday carry or are we not? Can a LEO safely carry amongst the populace or can he not. If we here on this forum cannot believe what we have proclaimed, how can we expect opponents to believe us?

No vetting is done on this forum regarding membership application. Trolls can come here, antis, bad guys posting scenarios to learn how good guys might defend, it is wide open for seemingly innocuous posts which have a larger meaning, yet not so for others who respond to the bigger picture. If I am not to be allowed to point out potential, then you guys don't need anything I might say, and I can spend even more time in service to the work I do for my country. Elsewhere folks in high places appreciate my opinions.

You're of course right that guns in holsters don't go off by themselves.

However, folks have managed to discharge guns while they were in holsters or while they were trying to keep them from falling out of holsters often enough in the past that we know it can happen. With belt holsters they usually shoot themselves. With shoulder holsters they usually shoot others.

I'm not personally comfortable being just one small unforeseen circumstance or bit of clumsiness away from getting shot with a gun that's already pointed at me.

That doesn't make others who think otherwise wrong. Their situational analysis or risk tolerance is simply different than mine. As I said in my post, YMMV.

I don't think a reasoned difference of opinions among friends should be taken as any more than that. No two people will ever agree on everything, let alone a whole forum community.

koolaid wrote:
Excaliber wrote:Guns carried in pocket holsters don't "go off" by themselves.
Remove the word "pocket" and you have exactly my point.

That is also true, provided it is a quality holster that covers the trigger guard completely.

Dave2 wrote:
LikesShinyThings wrote:
koolaid wrote:For those of you who have said it would make you uncomfortable, do you ever carry in a pocket holster?

Would you be uncomfortable sitting across the table from someone carrying in a pocket holster?

Why or why not?
Good point.
Very good point... I think this hasn't occurred to most people because it's "out of sight, out of mind". Personally, I rarely sit with my legs pointed straight ahead, to if I had a gun in pocket holster and if it "just went off", as much as my pockets are pulled tight when I'm sitting and not holding my legs closed, the bullet would probably hit my leg which is obviously bad, but so much better than hitting someone else anywhere. In fact, assuming I don't get a permanent injury, I think having it hit my leg is the most desirable outcome of an AD/ND in a crowd because I "contain" all (hopefully) the danger, and the crowd just has to worry about the slippery spot where I was sitting.

Hmm... With that in mind, now I'm reconsidering whether I want a .380 or a 9mm for pocket carry...

Guns carried in pocket holsters don't "go off" by themselves.

Guns carried loose in pockets with other items discharge when their bang switch is depressed by contact with one of those items, or when the wearer sticks his hand in the pocket and finds the gun in a different position than what he expected.

If you're planning to carry a gun in a way that you think is likely to result in an ND that you want to stay in your body, it would be best to choose the smallest, wimpiest cartridge you can find. The .25ACP comes to mind. It won't help you defend yourself, but will reduce your injuries when you shoot yourself.

Then again, you could avoid all that pain and ruckus entirely by not carrying a gun at all.

I have a simple rule:

Do whatever I have to in order to avoid having the end of a gun with the hole in it pointed at me.

No discussion. No exceptions. Period.

Relying on guesses about a gun's mechanical condition, cocked status, holster performance, or owner's skill to make me feel better about an obvious risk of perforation by allowing a violation of Rule 2 is just not for me.

YMMV.

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