Search found 6 matches

by Excaliber
Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:29 am
Forum: The Crime Blotter
Topic: Good Shoot: CHL shoots robber on gas station video.
Replies: 75
Views: 10640

Re: Good Shoot: CHL shoots robber on gas station video.

paulhailes wrote:
baldeagle wrote:Another lesson learned (and I don't in any way mean to cause hesitation to fire) is that the incident isn't necessarily over after the BG is down. If his "friend's" comments are to be taken at all seriously, the victim had better remain on high alert for the foreseeable future. Hopefully they'll both be sent to prison for a long, long time. Both have been caught dead to rights. The one because he has the bullet holes to prove he was the one shot. The other because he was brain dead enough to admit his involvement on Facebook. Hopefully "Brandon" is all hat and no cattle and Mr. Fox can go back to living without fearing for his life every time he steps out of his house. I'm betting he never buys gas at the store again.
It amazes me how he could just go on facebook and talk about it, I mean come on your not helping yourself out here. I look at things criminals do these days and all I can say is really?
Most of these folks are not afflicted with the hesitation that comes from deep thought.

If it seems like a good idea at the time, they just go with it.

If it doesn't work out real well, they don't learn much from the experience either and will do the same things over and over while getting the same results.
by Excaliber
Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:57 am
Forum: The Crime Blotter
Topic: Good Shoot: CHL shoots robber on gas station video.
Replies: 75
Views: 10640

Re: Good Shoot: CHL shoots robber on gas station video.

jimlongley wrote:
fickman wrote:Glad this turned out OK for the victim. . . I hate being approached while pumping gas. It normally only happens to me along an Interstate or near downtown, but once it happened in Keller and it caught me completely off guard. . . the guy came up from the railroad tracks near 377 and was beside me before I processed everything.

I refused him a ride or money, and he went to dig through the trash by the convenience store door (I was on the street-side of the pumps) about 7 yards away. He yelled some offensive "compliments" at my wife as she was washing the windows and I encouraged him to "chill out" and kept my eye on him. He tried to step to the side one length so that I couldn't see him through the pump, but I shifted. He did it again and I again adapted so that he was in my vision. I wasn't staring him down, but I made it clear I could see him.

He looked healthy and in his mid to late 30's. . . athletic frame and about 5'10" with a short haircut (parted) and a messenger bag over his shoulder. I had a revolver in an ankle holster and, not knowing what might be in his bag (which he was intermittently rummaging through), decided that if he approached me again, I would loudly command him to stop and I would draw.

Gas stations present a lot of vulnerabilities: blind spots, lots of traffic, distractions (messing with credit card machine, pump, nozzle, etc.). . . and it's fairly routine, so it's easy to turn off your alert and go into auto-mode.

Good reminder to stay alert and vigilant.
Similar thing on the way to FL last year, which I may have posted about here. We stopped for gas and a biological break in the early early am, and right as my wife went inside, the pack started coming toward me like hyenas. My TX CHL had expired, and my wife was carrying (and inside now) but the .45 was in the glove box, so I "washed the windows" around to the side of the car, opened the glove box, and prepared myself for the worst. They must have sensed that I was not easy prey, because beyond loudly asking for money and backing out to and circling well out of 7 yard range, they made no further attempt to approach. Intimidation at that distance is not really intimidating. By the time my wife came back out the situation was almost over and they ignored her.
I'm glad to hear it ended well - you recognized danger and prepared to engage. They weren't prepared for that and hesitated, trying to figure out what to do, and couldn't come up with a consensus to move in because they correctly sensed that was not likely to go well for them, and they eventually melted away. You did a good job in successfully resolving a very volatile and dangerous situation.

In after action review mode, you might consider that things could have taken a way different course if the BG's had taken the opportunity to accost your wife as she crossed their perimeter on the way to your car. She likely would have had to use her gun to get out of that one. A lower risk alternative would have been when she saw the situation, she stayed in the store and called 911. Help would likely have been a long time in coming, but it would have put you in the complainant position in the incoming calls, and you could have maintained the standoff longer if the BG's took longer to make up their minds.
by Excaliber
Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:10 pm
Forum: The Crime Blotter
Topic: Good Shoot: CHL shoots robber on gas station video.
Replies: 75
Views: 10640

Re: Good Shoot: CHL shoots robber on gas station video.

74novaman wrote:
Excaliber wrote:
Purplehood wrote:The amazing thing is the mindset of this FB guy. He really doesn't realize that he or his buddy did anything wrong.

His statement to the effect of "My bro was beating this guys behind, and the guy just shot him" just boggles my mind.
The only response I can think of to the guy's apparent inability to connect the dots between the assault and the GG's defensive response is: Duh!
You'd probably have to phrase it something like this for him to get it though:

yo, bruh....ya mess wit da bull, ya git dem horns, brah......ya.....
It's true that effective communication is built on talking to people in a language they understand.
by Excaliber
Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:45 pm
Forum: The Crime Blotter
Topic: Good Shoot: CHL shoots robber on gas station video.
Replies: 75
Views: 10640

Re: Good Shoot: CHL shoots robber on gas station video.

Purplehood wrote:The amazing thing is the mindset of this FB guy. He really doesn't realize that he or his buddy did anything wrong.

His statement to the effect of "My bro was beating this guys behind, and the guy just shot him" just boggles my mind.
The only response I can think of to the guy's apparent inability to connect the dots between the assault and the GG's defensive response is: Duh!
by Excaliber
Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:02 am
Forum: The Crime Blotter
Topic: Good Shoot: CHL shoots robber on gas station video.
Replies: 75
Views: 10640

Re: Good Shoot: CHL shoots robber on gas station video.

2up1down wrote:
Jumping Frog wrote:Dayton OH Police say a man who was being robbed at a local gas station turned the table on his two attackers, shooting one of them. The man had a CHL.

The first link, especially, is a raw video feed of the shooting with a moment-by-moment narrative by the investigating police detective. Interesting video with lessons for all of us.

http://fox.daytonsnewssource.com/shared ... d_47.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.whiotv.com/video/28315602/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This story has been getting a lot of discussion over on Ohioccwforums.org. The CHL who defended himself posted the links online and has been discussing his shooting in the forums.

The DA has already stated it is a "good shoot", so the CHL is clear on that level. Ohio bars the BG from civil damages, so he has little to worry about in that regard.

A couple points the CHL has made.
  • After he shot the BG, he got in his car and left since there was a second BG on scene. However, he immediately called 911 and returned to the scene as soon as the police arrived.
  • He regrets that his gun was in the center console instead of on his person. He almost did not make it back to his gun.
  • He said the gun was a glock model 36. Carrying with one in the chamber probably saved his life because he was holding himself in the car with his left hand as they were trying to pull him out of the car. No way he could have racked the slide.
  • He was using Cor-Bon "Pow'R Ball" .45 ammo. Fired twice, hit twice center mass.
  • He did have auditory exclusion, no memory of loud noise when he fired.
  • The second BG, accomplice, has posted pictures of the bullet wounds on his FaceBook page and has basically admitted on FB that he was there and he is threatening revenge on the OP. The friends are also talking about revenge.
  • BG Facebook link: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id= ... at?sk=wall" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One lesson I think stands out when watching the video is the OP made a serious mistake in letting the BG get too close. I'd have been in his face long before the violence erupted telling him to back off. If he didn't comply, I would have had my hand on my handgun's grip (or more, depending upon circumstance).

Waiting until you are already hit to get your gun into play is poor planning, imo. He is lucky there wasn't a knife.
Great post FROG!!
The facebook wall is now private, thanks to Frog I found screen captures on the Ohioans site.
It's wise to study the enemy..
http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic. ... 2&start=90" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The picture of the wounds is small, but the large wound near the top of the photo clearly shows flash burn around the entry point. The dark black spots are powder stippling - made by bits of burning powder that hadn't completely burned in the barrel. These are classic indications of a very short distance between the muzzle and the suspect when the gun was fired.
by Excaliber
Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:58 pm
Forum: The Crime Blotter
Topic: Good Shoot: CHL shoots robber on gas station video.
Replies: 75
Views: 10640

Re: Good Shoot: CHL shoots robber on gas station video.

Texas Dan Mosby wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:I actually took a look at that facebook page. What a loser. And he's making like he's a victim. :roll: Evidently, he hasn't seen the video.....
What a loser indeed...

Will the criminal learn from this and adopt a lawful and productive life? No, I think not. IMO, society would be better served had this individual not survived.
One lesson I think stands out when watching the video is the OP made a serious mistake in letting the BG get too close.
Personal space is just that, PERSONAL. Allowing someone to invade your personal space without challenging their action is a sign of weakness, and WILL encourage a potential criminal. Should they ignore your challenge, odds are they have hostile intent, and should be treated as a threat.
This is an important point in justifying why you believe direct action was necessary to deal with an imminent threat.

A well intentioned person or a casual passerby would respond to a challenge about intrusion into personal space by backing off, apologizing, or both. Failure to do so is a clear threat indicator that is useful for both selecting an appropriate response and justifying it later.

Letting this opportunity to either avoid an incident or better position yourself to manage one pass has no upside that I can think of.

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