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What started out as already really ugly is now getting rapidly worse.

This is making my head hurt.

magillapd wrote:Ok, they need a law banning Off Duty police officers from owning guns. This is the exact argument that the lefties make about CHL holders. So, here's the fix. All hanguns need to be issued at briefing and turned back into the department when your shift ends. Let the on duty officers handle the situation.

See...makes no sense, but there you have it. Everyone will be safe and the guns will be at the police department!!

One small problem:

According to the reports I've seen, all the officers involved were on duty except for the retired officer who allegedly yelled "Gun!".

ELB wrote:Update on the shooting:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/li_o ... 6Y7h5QYVEN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Summary (info provide to NY Post by Nassau County Police Benevolent Association President):
- Initial event (shooting the guy with the knife) was over.
- MTA cops assisting with "mop up' duty
- NCPD Special Ops Officer Breitkopf and his partner roll up in their car
- Breitkopf walks towards house with rifle over his shoulder and badge hanging around his neck.
- Unidentified retired NYPD sergeant who lives in the neighborhood and was part of the looky-loo crowd shouts, "GUN!"
- One MTA cop tries to take rifle away from Breitkopf
- Other MTA cop, Glenn Gentile, shoots Breitkopf in the side
- MTA cops are trying to handcuff Breitkopf on the lawn when Breitkopf's partner runs up and yells, "He's one of us!"

That is a much uglier account of what was already an ugly incident.

The Annoyed Man wrote:So why don't plain-clothes officers keep a "Raid Jacket" in their trunk - along with the AR15 - just for scenarios like this? Apparently, the poor guy who got shot had a rifle in his car, "just in case." He might still be alive if he also had a blue windbreaker with "POLICE" in big gold letters on the back, or something like that. To me, it isn't a training issue so much as it is a preparedness issue which falls more squarely on the chain of command than it does on the line officers - even the plain clothed ones. If they had expected an plain clothes officer to carry a rifle in his car, and if they had expected him to respond in his capacity as an LEO in such a situation, then shame on them for not also providing him with some kind of covering to identify him in a shooting scenario as friend, and not foe.

A fluorescent traffic vest with police markings is another viable option for carry in the vehicle.

It's not stealthy, but stealth isn't your biggest concern when you're in plainclothes with uniformed officers responding to your location from multiple directions.

gigag04 wrote:This is tragic. Don't be so quick to attack those involved or comment on their training. Each person out there was trying to help and some things went very bad.

This is good advice.

There isn't nearly enough good information available on this incident to draw any conclusion at all beyond the stated facts. However, the fact that so little information has been released suggests it's not a story anyone will be proud of when all the details come out.

At this point it can be reasonably said that this is another instance where the IFF (identification friend or foe) problem that has been discussed here in several threads is in play. It again highlights this serious and ongoing issue for police officers, particularly when a plainclothes officer is involved. A non-LEO citizen is not exempt from these concerns.

It can also be reasonably observed that this incident is a reminder of why administrators who train their people to shoot any non uniformed person with a gun could well be setting their agencies up for a future tragedy.