Search found 4 matches

by Excaliber
Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:39 pm
Forum: Rifles & Shotguns
Topic: Thoughts on the Practicality of Pistol Caliber Carbine?
Replies: 44
Views: 8800

Re: Thoughts on the Practicality of Pistol Caliber Carbine?

duggy wrote:Pistol rounds speed up considerably and pack a lot more punch when shot from a 16" barrel.

Just as a quick reference, from the May 2010 American Rifleman is an article on Ruger 327 revolvers. At the end of the article is the usual 'Shooting Results (25 Yds.)" table. However this time there are two pistols so you get to see the difference in a 5.5" barrel on the Ruger Blackhawk and the 4.2" barrel on the GP100 for four different types of ammo. I'll just pick one type from the table as an example - American Eagle No. AE327 100-Gr JSP:

Vel at 10' and energy for the 5.5" = 1725 fps and 660 ft-lbs
Vel at 10' and energy for the 4.2" = 1580 fps and 554 ft-lbs

This just a 1.3" difference.

Maybe there a few of the CHLforum members that know how to access specific ballistic data for different barrel lengths.

I like the idea of a pistol carbine for home defense because they have more power than pistols in the same caliber, you can shoot them very precisely (even under pressure), have lots of shots in reserve with a large capacity mag, and you don't have to worry about shooting through multiple walls (like with a .223/5.56). And the CX4 is great choice.
Careful here. LE tests show that the light and fragile .223 stops more quickly in less wallboard than the standard LE pistol calibers. 9mm zips through wallboard just fine.

When my son was in college, the guy in the next apartment was in the basic police academy. He violated a few of the 4 rules and discharged a hollow point 9mm round which zipped through both sides of the wall which separated the apartments, ricocheted off the ceiling in my son's living room, penetrated both sides of the wall in an adjoining closet, and came to rest inside.
by Excaliber
Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:26 pm
Forum: Rifles & Shotguns
Topic: Thoughts on the Practicality of Pistol Caliber Carbine?
Replies: 44
Views: 8800

Re: Thoughts on the Practicality of Pistol Caliber Carbine?

G26ster wrote:In the right hands, an almost 70 year old carbine can make you think it's fully automatic. Go to 12:00 into the video. :mrgreen:

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The same can be said of the revolver. The video evidence is here.

The operative phrase is, "in the right hands." :fire
by Excaliber
Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:40 pm
Forum: Rifles & Shotguns
Topic: Thoughts on the Practicality of Pistol Caliber Carbine?
Replies: 44
Views: 8800

Re: Thoughts on the Practicality of Pistol Caliber Carbine?

Kiowa Scout wrote:mgood and excaliber,

Thanks for your thoughts. I keep going back and forth on this one.
My interested was piqued again when I watched the episode of Best Defense Survival and they were talking about in a survival situation how it could be useful.

As far no advantage in the PCC, my p226 shoots a 124gr +p HP at about 1290fps, the same bullet out of a carbine is travelling at roughly 1700 fps. There is some increase, but does it make that much difference, I guess we need to ask SWAT, FBI HRT & SRT why they carry the H&K MP5 for urban situations?
I have fired the MP5, and it is an awesome weapon when used within its purpose designed envelope.

Some years ago the FBI issued MP5's as the long arm for trunk carry by agents in the field. According to the last conversation I had with an FBI firearms instructor, they now issue either the carbine versions of either the AR15 or M16 for this purpose because of superior ballistic and on target performance, particularly at ranges beyond average pistol encounter distances.

Some entry team members sometimes carry the MP5 (often in .40 caliber) because those fully automatic guns meet the three criteria for producing the most rapidly incapacitating damage: multiple, simultaneous, and penetrating wounds. Any semiauto pistol caliber carbine you buy is going to be missing that critical element of fully automatic fire and will not deliver the same "mutliple and simultaneous" results.

SWAT and other elite units also do not generally use the MP5 for fights at distances beyond pistol engagement distances because better options are available with rifles that fire rifle cartridges.
by Excaliber
Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:55 pm
Forum: Rifles & Shotguns
Topic: Thoughts on the Practicality of Pistol Caliber Carbine?
Replies: 44
Views: 8800

Re: Thoughts on the Practicality of Pistol Caliber Carbine?

Kiowa Scout wrote:I have looked through the posts and could not find this so I decided to post my questions.
I am thinking about getting at least pistol caliber carbine(PCC).
My questions are as follows:
How many people do own one?
What do you have?
Do you try to get a PCC that is magazine interchangeable with your CCW?

I am currently looking at the Kel-tec Sub-2000 because I can get one that interchanges with my Sig P226.
I was also looking at the Beretta CX4 Storm. I have a M9 so I could interchange mags there as well. What are your thoughts?
Pistol caliber carbines strike me as an ingenious solution to a nonexistent problem.

I see little use for a longer, heavier gun that fires the same projectiles as a much shorter, lighter, and easier to carry one.

Yes, I know the longer sight radius gives you some degree of increased hit probability, but the same sight radius on a rifle of similar weight could deliver a much more effective projectile in a true rifle caliber that would give you a much better chance of decisively ending a fight with just one round.

If the purpose of a pistol is to fight your way to your rifle, and your rifle is no more powerful than your pistol, I have to ask:

"What's the point?"

I could come up with some very specialized circumstances where guns of this type might make sense (e.g., a .22LR rifle as a companion to a .22 pistol for either rodent control around the ranch or cheap practice), but for self defense purposes I couldn't recommend it when more versatile and effective options are readily available.

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