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by Excaliber
Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:24 am
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: One of these for home defense?
Replies: 29
Views: 3710

Re: One of these for home defense?

flynbenny wrote:
C-dub wrote:
sar wrote:I've operated on more folks shot with shotguns than I care to think about. Those of you who have birdshot in their guns are strongly overestimating the effectiveness. The penetration is miserable and if the recipient is heavily clothed, may be negligible. This is not speculation, but observation.
I'm probably wrong, but the bird shot might be more for it's psychological effect and ability to cause pain than it's ability to kill. Anyone?
The idea is that at a distance of around 12-15 feet or less (i.e. distances in a small apartment such as mine) the shot will strike as a single mass. The pattern at that range will be 6 in or less. The reason for using the smaller shot is that should the shooter miss, the pellets will be stopped or slowed to less than lethal velocity, so that persons in another room or apartment are not harmed. My birdshot round for home defense is 1 7/8 oz. of no. 5 birdshot loaded max pressure, in 3 inch high brass. It's a heavy field load from Federal.

Aside from some of accounts here and on the 'BoT', I personally don't know of anyone surviving a chest or head shot from a heavy 12 ga load under 25 feet, nearly 2 oz of lead hitting at 1200 fps is going to leave a mark.

The ballistic reality is that as soon as the shot begins to spread out at about 1 yard from the muzzle, the shot doesn't strike as a single semisolid mass, which a "6 inch pattern" clearly is not. It consists of a bunch of very tiny individual pellets carrying far less energy than a BB and insufficient to achieve reliable deep penetration. The result is a shallow, ugly looking wound with little or no damage to vital organs and a very angry shootee.

Selecting your ammunition for missed shots seems like a reversal of priorities to me. Additional training and practice with proven defensive ammunition would be a much better way to go.

Once again I'll suggest a quick way to evaluate a prospective ammunition choice: Do the police, who do this every day under the widest possible variety of circumstances and spend a lot of money and effort on testing, use what you're considering? If yes, then it may be suitable for your use under conditions similar to when they use it to achieve the results they use it for. If no, then you use something different that's been around for a while at your peril, because you can be nearly 100% certain that the professional users have already looked at and rejected it because it doesn't do the job right.
by Excaliber
Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:32 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: One of these for home defense?
Replies: 29
Views: 3710

Re: One of these for home defense?

wheelgun1958 wrote:
sar wrote:I've operated on more folks shot with shotguns than I care to think about. Those of you who have birdshot in their guns are strongly overestimating the effectiveness. The penetration is miserable and if the recipient is heavily clothed, may be negligible. This is not speculation, but observation.
It may not penetrate heavy clothing, but I'm sure he'll penetrate his shorts! :lol::
Perhaps. And then he'll likely get really mad and actively and physically express his displeasure to the serious detriment of the birdshot firing defender, who will also likely soil his shorts when he realizes his attacker wasn't overly impressed by a loud noise and superficial wound, and isn't behaving like he assumed a bad guy would.
by Excaliber
Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:06 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: One of these for home defense?
Replies: 29
Views: 3710

Re: One of these for home defense?

C-dub wrote:
sar wrote:I've operated on more folks shot with shotguns than I care to think about. Those of you who have birdshot in their guns are strongly overestimating the effectiveness. The penetration is miserable and if the recipient is heavily clothed, may be negligible. This is not speculation, but observation.
I'm probably wrong, but the bird shot might be more for it's psychological effect and ability to cause pain than it's ability to kill. Anyone?
I think sar is trying to communicate the fact that birdshot fired from more than just a few feet away does not possess the penetration, wound channel, and energy delivery characteristics necessary to end a threat without voluntary compliance by the aggressor. Any projectile or group of projectiles that doesn't do that doesn't meet the most basic requirement for defensive use in a life threatening encounter.

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