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hillfighter wrote:Each of us has to decide whether it's more important to chew the fat with the 911 operator sitting somewhere safe and dry or deal with the real world situation in front of us. For me that depends a lot on the situation but if it's dynamic it might be more dangerous than texting while driving.

You don't need to make small talk, and you don't need to focus on the phone.

However, keeping the line open allows you to immediately notify the dispatcher of significant changes in the situation that would impact the response. Those notifications might otherwise be really hard to do if you had to call back.

It also puts anything anyone says to you and anything you say to them on the official dispatch tape. If those things support your account of what happened, you'll be really glad they're there later on.

bmwrdr wrote:As far as I know, the best way to act, if it happened and a robber is shot and laying on the ground.

Check the surrounding area, if everything is clear get any weapons out of reach if the thug is still alive.
Call 911 and say you shot an attacker, please send police and an ambulance may be required. Explain your location as detailed and possible. Describe how you look (blue shirt, black pants,..).
Hang up and wait until police shows up. Holster your gun and make sure it is concealed.
Most important, try to stay calm! Good luck!

"Staying calm" isn't going to happen. At that point, you're anything but calm, and there's no "stay" about it.

When I see that language in written law enforcement or corporate procedures, it's a pretty fair indicator that the person who wrote the procedure has never successfully managed the emergency situation the procedure is supposed to provide guidance for.

Making the scene safe, holstering your gun, and providing a good description of yourself and the bad guy (who may decide to get up and become active again, despite any wounds) are good ideas.

I do not agree with hanging up. Lots of things can change between the initial report and when officers arrive. I believe it's a better idea to stay on the line with dispatch to provide real time updates but only providing information on things they need to know about (e.g., crowds gathering, suspect attempting to flee, etc.).

aardwolf wrote:Has anyone read Alan Korwin's book on the subject? He's written some useful books but the cover makes me hesitate.
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I have met Alan, I like him, and I read his book.

I also corresponded with him afterwards about his conclusions, on which we respectfully disagree.

He recommends that you find and retain a lawyer who will magically show up at the scene of a shooting any day of the week, day or night, and start to represent you on the spot.

I'll start believing in the tooth fairy before I bet my future on that assumption.

CompVest wrote:

CHLady wrote:Excaliber, I think you put it very well and I appreciate the clarification and the continued education. It's nice to have a senior member to bounce these things off of. May we never have to know all these things but may we have the wisdom if and when we need it. Thanks again. I'm keeping my eyes and ears open to learn all I can.

I highly recommend reading "On Combat" by Dave Grossman and "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin De Becker if you haven't already. They are a definite read for any that are willing to take responsibility for their own safety.

CHLady, I'm happy I could be of help.

I'll second CompVest's endorsement of both books. They should be "required reading" for anyone serious about self defense. I'll add a third to the list: Sharpening the Warrior's Edge by Bruce Siddle.

This book was written to help law enforcement trainers understand the psychology and science of training, and it is one of the most important references Dave Grossman relied on while writing the "On Combat" passages about the strange things that happen to the mind and body during a life threatening encounter. Examples include tunnel vision, diminished hearing where gunshots are either silent or sound like little pops, the perception that either time speeds up or slows down markedly, visual distortions where ejecting shells may look as big as garbage cans, involuntary release of bladder and bowel contents, and lots of other things that won't enhance your performance. People who have been in a serious auto accident may have some experience with a couple of these, but the effects in combat are much worse.

If you truly want to understand what perceptual and motor changes you can expect in a fight for your life, and how to prepare and minimize them so you do the right things successfully, this book is another "must read."

Those who don't know how to manage the neuropsychology of life threatening events are in for big surprises that will place them at a serious and potentially fatal disadvantage during an incident.

CHLady wrote:In my opinion from what I've learned, one of the most important things you need to remember is that YOU are the victim and anything you need to say or do to get that through the officers head is to your benefit including saying something like "I can't breathe, I'm having a panic attack, I need to go to the emergency room, officer would you please take the weapon out of my holster....I don't want to touch it right now", etc.

Another thing I deem as important is that once you perceive yourself to be out of eminent danger you should always holster your gun for fear some 'Joe Blow' or even the police will come onto the scene not knowing the circumstances and blow you away as the bad guy.

That's all I have to add from the CHL class I took. Hope that helps a bit.

Making clear that the attacker was the aggressor and you the intended victim is most definitely a good thing. You start that distinction by making the 911 call as soon as you safely can, and asking for an ambulance for the injured attacker in the same phone call.

For lots of good reasons, saying something along the lines of "I'm too shaken up to give a statement right now" can certainly work to your advantage. It would almost certainly be true whether you realized it or not due to the neuropsychological effects of a life threatening encounter, and your attorney will breathe a large sigh of relief when you finally get to talk to him.

You need to know that the distorted perceptions that come along with the dump of stress chemicals into your bloodstream and a skyrocketing heart rate won't subside for a while, and memories of the incident won't settle down for 24 - 48 hours. If you try to describe the incident before that time, you are very likely to say things that you believe to be true according to your perceptions at that moment, but that are demonstrably false from the evidence and other witnesses. This can make the difference in the responding officer's determination of whether it was a "good shoot" or not. Things like time, distance and sounds are especially prone to distorted perception. That's why police officers involved in shootings don't give statements until after that time period.

Saying some of the other things quoted above can be unhelpful since they could be construed by a prosecutor to indicate that you were unreasonably fearful, not fully in control of your actions, and were having regrets about what you had done immediately after the incident.

If you're having trouble breathing, your heart is pounding so it seems like it's going to break out of your chest, and you want to go to the emergency room, saying that is fine - but I would leave off the diagnosis, keep quiet, and wait for the ambulance.

Don't worry about the gun part either - responding officers will most certainly disarm you before you get a chance to say anything.

PBR wrote:

I attended one of Mr. Cotton's recent seminars, and I didn't hear that - or anything close to it - either.

Probably more like "keep shooting until he/she isn't a threat anymore"

Exactly. And then call 911 to request medical assistance for the subject as soon as it's safe to do so.

Liberty wrote:

TLE2 wrote:GO TO ONE OF CHARLES COTTON'S CLASSES....

(I know I'm shouting, but it's the only answer. He goes over all of that, with example).

He (I'm remembering) said that you should give the police only a cursory overview of the events. Wait until later, when your adrenaline is normal and then make a clear and concise statement, with your lawyer's advice.

Also, if the perp is still moving, keep shooting until he/she isn't anymore. If you're with someone, make sure that they are in a protected situation. Use cover available.

(At least that's how I remember it. Maybe I should go to his lecture every 6 months or so. I can recommend it).

/TLE2

Just to clarify ... I can't imagine Mr. Cotton saying what I highlited. I am quite sure he never said that when I attended his seminar

I attended one of Mr. Cotton's recent seminars, and I didn't hear that - or anything close to it - either.

CompVest wrote:If you are in a safe position with no other threats I think as tactical reload would be appropriate.

Even if you're not in a truly safe position but have made it behind cover and a lull in the action occurs, a tactical reload would be a really good idea. Running dry during a resumption of a momentarily paused firefight is a depressing experience that few get to recount firsthand.