TexasCHLforum.com

bridge wrote:Man, that's cold. A good revenge tactic, but cold.

Fangs wrote: In the end it's only going to cost me $50. Not nearly worth the loss of my CHL or court fees. Based on my experience in this life, sooner or later he'll reap what he sows, and hopefully I'll get to read the newspaper article.

CHLSteve wrote:I guess the only solution would be to avoid letting a stranger hold something of value of yours.

Can I see your cell phone? Show it to him in your hand. If he wants to "hold it", I'd rather not. You would never expect anyone to do something like that, but obviously it happens.

Maybe you should go drinking in non-51% establishments.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Excaliber wrote:ccessible to the strong hand without a visible giveaway from outside. Returning it to the primary left side holster before exiting the vehicle could be done with the right hand to once again avoid the exaggerated motion that might reveal what's actually happening.

What do you southpaws think of that solution?

It sounds like it would work - until it came time to return the pistol to my strong side holster. You've seen my build. I don't think I can reach that far with my right arm!

OTH, once I'm stopped before exiting the car, I can leisurely return the pistol to my strong side holster when no one is watching. And if that is the case, then maybe I need to get one of those holsters that attaches to the front of the car seat, instead of wearing a belt slide on the weak side.

KC5AV wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Yeah, I had really mixed feelings about the idea. I realized after I wrote that, that I was coming from the point of view of a left handed shooter. That doesn't negate what you say, but being left handed, with my gun holstered on my left, it requires that I lean away from the door to get access to my weapon. That would considerably slow down my reaction time to the threat if drawing the gun were necessary. OTH, if I store the weapon elsewhere in the car while I'm driving, then I have to re-holster it before exiting the car. My concern is that, since I would have to lean away from the door to re-holster the gun, it is an exaggerated movement that might attract undue attention from others outside the car, possibly giving away what I am doing. Perhaps the solution is to keep a second pistol in the car when I'm driving, but then I have to worry about securing it when I'm not in the car. That is one of the reasons I won't go in a 30.06 posted business - the fact that I have to leave a gun in the car where it can be stolen.

I'm curious if other left handed CHLers have the same concerns I do.

That is something I've thought about a lot. I haven't found a good solution yet.

WarHawk-AVG wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Steve, I'm glad that everything worked out OK in the end that you neither got hurt, nor had to shoot someone. I suspect you probably handled it as well as you could, given the circumstances.

Normally I wouldn't advocate leaving your car, but I toss this out there as an idea... If you had left your car, it would have A) given you some tactical maneuvering room; and B) drawn the other guy's attention away from your car (with your wife and child inside), and toward you, in case he was armed. At that point, you could give some pretty aggressive body language - hand on gun, etc. - and convince him to back off.

Analyzing it from my inexperienced viewpoint, the car affords you and your family some protection, but not nearly enough. On the downside, being trapped inside the car limits your ability to get to your gun, to draw it, and to aim and fire it without obstructions like steering wheel and windshield in the way. OTH, if you exit the vehicle but keep behind the cover of the open door, you still have some protection, you have increased mobility options, and you can always jump back into the car if you have to.

I am curious as to what some of our more tactically experienced members like Excaliber or others would say.

I disagree (in my opinion)...exiting your vehicle would have been and could be construed as escalating the situation...rolling down the window and telling the guy to back off was the trigger point...further aggression or advancement on his vehicle then would have been the aggressive attacker and saved him...getting out of the car would have been seen as you stepping up to the challenge. Plus in case of emergency...a quick shift and a flooring of the gas pedal puts much more distance between an attacker and you...even if you had to shove his vehicle out of the way. A vehicle is by far cover...but it beats standing out in the open.

I am glad it all worked out and the situation defused itself...fortunate for that guy he knew not to advance on a vehicle after initiating a confrontation...doing so can and usually ends badly

CHLSteve wrote:My wife and I were getting ready to leave to meet the family for a Christmas Eve service. I commented on how the shirt I was wearing didn't go down as far as my others, and it made me nervous to wear it for fear of accidental flashing. My wife suggested I leave the gun home tonight--after all, we were just going to out to a church service. I told her that now I would have to wear it, since we made the "what could possibly go wrong?" comment. Little did I know how right I was going to be.

After the service, we turned out of the church parking lot and were driving through a residential area, although it was still on a main street in Friendswood. I am unfamiliar with this road, as we were only visiting the church. It was my wife, my 8 year old son, and myself. It was dark out. Traffic was a mess getting out of the parking lot, as 100's of people all tried to leave the church at the same time. It was cold and kind of raining out. I guess I cut some guy off, because he came up fast and was flashing his lights. I pulled over to one side to let him pass, but he slowed and kept pace with me, so I sped up and went past. He came around again, this time from a left turn only lane, and then cut across the front of my car stopping diagonally and blocking my path. There were cars parked to my right, and a car behind me. My car was blocked in.

A very angry man jumped out of the truck, shouting and cussing at me. He began approaching my door, shouting obscenities the whole time. It was one of those moments where it "happens so fast" and yet you have time to think a million thoughts. I remember thinking, "Is this it? Am I going to have to shoot this fool on Christmas Eve?" I rolled down my window and put my hand on my gun. I yelled at him in a loud and commanding voice, "Stay back! Leave us alone! Back off! Leave us alone!" I think I repeated myself about a dozen times, all the while he was continuing to shout at me and challenging me to get out of the car. I told him, "I am calling the police right now" as I held my cellphone in my left hand, right hand remaining in the ready position. I debated on telling him I had a gun, and that I would defend myself. As soon as it had begun, it was over as he turned and jumped back into his truck and drove off.

I checked him out for weapons as soon as he got out of the car, he didn't appear to have any. I didn't want to draw on the guy if possible, but I also felt that drawing may have ended the situation quicker. I resisted the "tough guy" urges to draw my weapon, even though the man was standing in the street shouting every curse word you can think of at me in front of my family. I was furious that my wife and young son were having to listen to him blather on.

When I got through to 911, he was already driving off. I gave them the license plate, description of the vehicle, and which direction he was going.

After things settled down, I talked with my wife about what happened. She confirmed my thoughts on this guy as she told me, "I thought you were going to have to shoot him. I was getting ready to reach back and cover our son's eyes."

We discussed the event at great length, and tried to come up with how this could have been better, or even avoided completely. From the time he was behind us flashing his lights till he was out of his car was maybe 20-30 seconds. He was out of his car for probably 10-15 seconds yelling at us. Not much time to think about a reaction.

For me, a couple of things stand out, but I'd also like to throw this out to the group for insight, and the valuable tactical feedback you guys often have.

1. I was very angry with myself for letting my car get boxed in. I wasn't thinking about this guy actually jumping out of his truck, but obviously he did. That alone could have made things much worse. I need to work on ways to AVOID the confrontation altogether.

2. I had pepper spray in my console, sitting right in the open. I could have easily grabbed it and used it, but the thought never even crossed my mind. I guess that shows me how useful it is in my current setup.

3. I had decided that if the guy were to come any closer, or produce a weapon of any sort, he would have been staring down the barrel of my gun. If he had produced a gun, I would have shot immediately. The thought of his return fire heading at my car with my wife and kid give me shudders.

4. At some point, I thought telling the guy I had a gun might have ended the whole thing quicker. My wife thinks it could have provoked more aggression. I know in some situations it can be considered a 'terroristic threat'. At what point can you (or should you) say "I've got a gun, leave me alone"?

5. I've never claimed to be an expert in body language, but I felt this guy wasn't going to follow through on his threats pretty quickly after he got out of the truck. My wife said his body language changed when he saw my response to him was equally as aggressive (telling him to back off, while leaning forward) and not cowering in fear. I was only leaning forward so I could grab my gun, but I guess it is an aggressive posture. In any case, he stopped advancing on our car and hung out about 8-10ft away before he returned to his truck.

6. I was kicking myself for rolling the window down. I felt like I exposed my family to more potential harm that way, if only just for protection from the foul language. Or he could have tried to spit on us. On the other hand, I had decided that if this idiot was going to come pounding on my window that I might shoot him. Rolling the window down and demanding that he stop while he was still approaching could have saved his life. Without a weapon visible, I felt comfortable that he could not harm us from where he was. Yes, I know about the 21ft thing, and 1.5 second response time... I was ready for that. If he made a move toward the car, the gun was coming out.

I also know that shooting the guy might not have been the end of it. What if the guy's wife came out of the truck afterwords going crazy because someone just shot her husband? The guy claimed to have "kids" in the car--they could have come out to see their dad get shot on Christmas Eve. Ugh...

My wife said that this renewed her interest in getting a CHL of her own. She's always been very supportive of mine, but never got hers. For her part, she also feels she should have been calling 911 from the start, instead of letting me do it. I agree, but I'm glad her first focus was on our son.

So that's about it. Please chime in, and comment so that I can learn form this experience. As I was sitting with my family later in the evening, watching my kid open some Christmas presents, I was so thankful to be there, and not at a police station giving a statement. I want to be better prepared mentally to make the right decisions. I can really see how this stuff happens so fast that you don't have time to prepare a response.


Merry Christmas to you all!