Search found 7 matches

by Excaliber
Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:48 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Coming home to find a burglar in your house...
Replies: 25
Views: 4745

Re: Coming home to find a burglar in your house...

KD5NRH wrote:
Excaliber wrote:Good luck with this if you decide to go ahead with it, but I still don't think it's a good idea. For one thing, if you have a fire, it's possible for the system to discharge through an electrical short caused by fire damage and drive all the firemen out of your house. I have a sneaking suspicion that you'll experience some fairly notable unintended results somewhere down the line.
Err...if my house is on fire, won't the pepper spray fall well below burning carpet fumes on the list of things to bother the firefighters?

For that matter, the 8-10lbs of powder and the various cleaners under the sink will be a lot more than irritants if they ignite in the enclosed house.

Maybe that's why firemen wear full face respirators when entering burning buildings.

The bottom line is - it's your house and your family, and you'll do what you think is best.

If you decide to go ahead with this, please be kind enough to share the results with the rest of us so we can either benefit from your insight or avoid making the same mistakes.
by Excaliber
Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:55 pm
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Coming home to find a burglar in your house...
Replies: 25
Views: 4745

Re: Coming home to find a burglar in your house...

DoubleJ wrote:
Excaliber wrote: I have a sneaking suspicion that you'll experience some fairly notable unintended results somewhere down the line.
Unintended Consequences???? :eek6
are you making book recommendations again? :totap:
Nope.

I was just trying to find a gentle way to say I think KD5NRH will end up dosing himself and his family with a high volume OC discharge at some point if he installs a commercial area denial device in his residence.
by Excaliber
Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:42 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Coming home to find a burglar in your house...
Replies: 25
Views: 4745

Re: Coming home to find a burglar in your house...

KD5NRH wrote:
Excaliber wrote:If the alarm goes off, after a preset delay, the OC aerosol is discharged. This means if your alarm goes off and you don't get your family into your safe room in time, you'll be disabling yourself and your family unless you connect it to a manual switch. That would be a nasty surprise while you've got a few other things on your mind.
That's why I specified the panic button inside the room; wait until the BG starts trying to get into the safe room, then trigger it directly. The alarm should be set to only trigger it automatically in "away" mode, if at all. By that point, you should have already used the cell phone to call the cops, and retrieved weapons for all family members capable of using them. Since you safe room should also have another exit, you can get out after the burglar has given up and before the OC starts getting heavy inside the room.

Of course, there's also the option of cheap, full-face respirators for all family members. One or more will probably be a necessity if any part of your home defense plan includes OC so that you can retrieve paperwork, medications, etc. after the incident. Either way, I'd rather have a spicy house for a few days than have to clean up and repair the mess from 00buck through the bedroom door.
Good luck with this if you decide to go ahead with it, but I still don't think it's a good idea. For one thing, if you have a fire, it's possible for the system to discharge through an electrical short caused by fire damage and drive all the firemen out of your house. I have a sneaking suspicion that you'll experience some fairly notable unintended results somewhere down the line.
by Excaliber
Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:56 pm
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Coming home to find a burglar in your house...
Replies: 25
Views: 4745

Re: Coming home to find a burglar in your house...

It's the little things that'll getcha........

Flint is definitely right that you'd NEVER live it down. The cops would be retelling it for years!
by Excaliber
Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:58 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Coming home to find a burglar in your house...
Replies: 25
Views: 4745

Re: Coming home to find a burglar in your house...

KD5NRH wrote:
Excaliber wrote:9. A safe room with a reinforced door equipped with a dead bolt to provide the family with a retreat location if an intrusion occurs while people are home.
And for $167, this seems like a great add-on just outside the safe room, with a panic button for it inside the room.
I'd be kinda careful about this one. It's not designed for residential applications, and, while it would probably cause the intruder to leave the area quickly, the drawbacks are pretty severe.

First of all, it's designed as a commercial area denial device connected to an alarm system. If the alarm goes off, after a preset delay, the OC aerosol is discharged. This means if your alarm goes off and you don't get your family into your safe room in time, you'll be disabling yourself and your family unless you connect it to a manual switch. That would be a nasty surprise while you've got a few other things on your mind.

Unless you also turn off your HVAC system before activating the device, as soon as the AC or heat come on, it will draw the aerosol into your safe room as well unless you have a separate air handling system that isolates that area from the rest of the house. This will force you and your family to vacate the safe room as well.

Note that it is advertised as covering approximately 2400 square feet of space. That would cover the first floor of most residences, and would make the area quite uninhabitable until thoroughly ventilated.

I wouldn't suggest this for residential purposes.
by Excaliber
Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:41 pm
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Coming home to find a burglar in your house...
Replies: 25
Views: 4745

Re: Coming home to find a burglar in your house...

gregthehand wrote:my dad grabbed a golf club and headed in.
BIG MISTAKE! The guy who's already inside has all kinds of major tactical advantages. If you suspect a burglary has occurred, back out quickly the way you came in and call for help from a position of safety outside. It takes at least 4 officers (2 outside at diagonal corners and 2 inside) to do a reasonably safe search for intruders and to prevent escape.
Humanphibian wrote:Time for me to play Monday Mornin QB on this one......what if the accomplice had been in HIS home when le left in persuit of the first BG?? He just ran out leaving baby and wife with a BG that KNOWS he is in deep and would probably do anything to get away.
Excellent point - where there's one there are often more, both inside and out. Another reason to back out and call for the cavalry.
gregthehand wrote:A good security system and a dog can thrawt this kind of behavior most of the time though.
Security systems and dogs are both good things to have. Unfortunately, not all dogs and security systems are equal, and many are overrated in expectations of what they can do. Here's a bit of perspective from a former burglary squad commander:

Daytime and early evening are the favored times for burglary because this is when homes can most often be found unoccupied. (It's unhealthy to break into occupied homes in Texas.) Burglars look for homes that can be entered without taking a lot of time or making a lot of noise. (This is relative - if your house is on 5 acres of land, noise isn't an issue.)

Beginning burglars generally try to avoid homes with security systems altogether. This is good. Experienced burglars will often attack alarmed homes anyway, particularly if the system doesn't go off as they are attempting entry and is only triggered after they are inside (e.g., in economy setups where not all perimeter openings are protected, and reliance is placed on motion detectors inside.) They are particularly unconcerned about systems that do not have loud audible devices out front to notify the neighbors - they know that no one outside can hear the interior siren. In these cases, the BG simply limits his time inside to 3 - 5 minutes because he knows the alarm company will take nearly that long to determine they need to call the police, and police response will usually take another 7 - 15 minutes at least. He won't get away with everything inside, but you can bet he'll have an armload of jewelry, guns, furs, and any other high value easily disposed of items he can readily carry unless he is intercepted by an alert and prepared neighbor.

Dogs are great for early warning to you when you're home, and a large aggressive dog is valuable as an additional barrier to a bad guy. However, they are not the ultimate solution. I have seen dogs let out into the yard, fed meat from the victim's refrigerator, beaten, shot, tied up, and gagged. Dogs, unless they are specifically trained to attack when presented with certain stimuli, are highly unreliable for burglary protection when no one is home. You just can't predict what they'll do.

As an example, I recall doing an initial search for suspects on a possible burglary in progress call when I was approached by a neighbor who advised me to watch out for the vicious dog which was well known in the neighborhood and had bitten people before. I thanked him for the info, and advised him that I hadn't seen a dog yet. While searching the last guest bedroom, I lifted the comforter and looked under the bed to find a large mixed breed dog with its paws over its eyes. It lifted one paw to look at me. I told the dog he should be ashamed of himself. He put his paw back over his eye and stayed right there - he never came out the whole time we were processing the scene. Further investigation revealed a puddle in the kitchen where the dog and the intruder apparently met. The intruder either kicked or struck the dog, the dog lost bladder control, and headed for the hills since there was no owner to defend. The takeaway is: The dog that will fiercely stand between you and a threat isn't nearly as attached to your jewelry, and can be readily persuaded to find something else to do.

On the other hand, in another incident we responded to a report of a man screaming for help. Upon arrival we found a hysterical would be burglar on the ground outside a very nice home just below a window which had been broken outwards from the inside. A large german shepherd was standing on the BG's chest growling, barking, and snarling. Investigation revealed that our erstwhile burglar was peering in the window prior to making entry when the shepherd, who took his territory protection duties seriously, launched himself from inside through the multipane window frame and storm window and hit our villain square in the chest, taking him to the ground where we found him. It took a few minutes to stop laughing and to convince the dog to let us take his prize away, but we were successful. Reportedly the dog ate steak that night.

Like I said, you just can't tell what they'll do in your absence.

So - what actually works?

A defense in depth that makes your place simply harder to mess with than those around you. The random burglar goes for the easy hit, figuring that most of the folks in a given neighborhood have roughly the same contents in their homes. Easy entry = low risk = he gets to do it again tomorrow. You don't need to make it impossible to enter (which is in itself impossible) - you just have to make it obviously more difficult than the neighbors'. Here's an outline of the way to approach it:

1. Solid exterior doors in strong frames
2. Quality deadbolts with at least 1" bolt throw and extra length reinforced strike plates bolted into the wall framing (not just the doorjamb).
3. A high quality safe bolted to the foundation slab for jewelry and guns
4. An alarm system that covers all perimeter doors and windows with magnetic contacts or alarm screen and reports alarms to a central monitoring station.
5. Glass break detectors in all rooms with exterior glass
6. Motion detectors in the master bedroom and main hallway / traffic areas
7. Loud interior and exterior audible sirens
8. An exterior strobe light visible from the street to help observers pinpoint the location
9. A safe room with a reinforced door equipped with a dead bolt to provide the family with a retreat location if an intrusion occurs while people are home.
10. Motion activated lights to illuminate approaches to all exterior doors
by Excaliber
Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:37 am
Forum: Never Again!!
Topic: Coming home to find a burglar in your house...
Replies: 25
Views: 4745

Re: Coming home to find a burglar in your house...

hooknbullet wrote: Another good thing to report is that his wife has apparently changed her stance on firearms...He said they'd had several "discussions" on the subject in the past and she wouldn't budge (until now)...he said the deputies actually recommended CHLs and sidearms, and that his wife seems suddenly receptive to the idea.
It's amazing how a little reality contact can help someone understand that all those stories they read about can happen to them too.

When I lived in New York during the 70's through 90's, it was axiomatic that a liberal was a conservative who just hadn't been mugged yet.

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