TexasCHLforum.com

Hey thanks for the link. That is definitely useful information.

BTW this link that follows from his blog entry on "metro tactical" http://www.expressfashion.com/products. ... =34&ppp=13 is a good example of the type of shirts that I wear (and the way they fit) pretty commonly.
or this
http://www.expressfashion.com/products. ... groupid=37
and this
http://www.expressfashion.com/products. ... groupid=39
although I'm not as slim as their T-shirt model. Think that dude, 20lb heavier (or 10 years older ) Hey I look pretty fit but I am not exactly Brad Pitt in Fight Club.

With jeans and a T-shirt I think the smartcarry is not going to work consistently, but it smartcarry works fine with cargo shorts/pants if I wear it kind of "high" so it ends up being a low appendix carry with the butt of the gun just above the belt line. You have to be feeling for the gun or walking into a very stiff wind to know it's there ... and trust me with a smartcarry, nobody's going to be feeling for it who doesn't already know it's there .

For the jeans scenario I ordered one of these http://www.desantisholster.com/031.html which I chose for appendix carry with jeans, given that being a lower-riding IWB it would put less torque on any belt so in the event I wear it with a belt that is insufficient to support a gun, I hope it winds up not being that much of a problem. Since it hasn't arrived yet, that remains to be seen.

As for my gun choice, the bulk of the Sigma conceals easily with the smartcarry and I think it will not be a problem with the Insider either. The one quirk with it is that the pinky extension on the base plate of the magazine tends to catch on the waist band and get pulled out on top of the waist band. I may take one of my mags and file down the pinky extension so that it protrudes less and has smooth edges that won't catch and this might just make it work and allow me to carry my preferred gun (the one I already own, high-cap 9mm).

The reality is that since I bicycle to work, and my employer does not allow firearms on the premises, the majority of the time I will not be able to carry and won't have to solve this problem. I also work a different job on the weekends which has a whole different set of limitations for clothing and carrying and unless I am carrying a very small, flat gun in a Smartcarry, it probably will not be feasible to carry. Mostly when I will be carrying will be in my own home or running around on the weekends and evenings, or when I am traveling.

I still plan eventually to get a smaller gun that will potentially be easier to conceal, but I'm out of funds at the moment. Probably next spring. At the current rate it appears I won't have my CHL in hand until it's cold outside anyway and I am sure I can easily conceal the Sigma when I need to in the winter time.

headin' out to the range this morning to work it. :)

thx for the input yerasimos.

I did note that I shot a the Kahrs at least as well as my own Sigma. The Sigma is funny. The trigger is not atrocious. In fact I don't think it's bad at all. But I am pretty new to the whole "sight picture" thing and I shoot the SIgma right on the money (that is, bigger groups but groups averaging center) when I point shoot but have less luck using the sights (low left, which is probably trigger). I guess I am spending more time trying to align the sights and this gives me more time to squeeze the trigger down and left, but when I just point and shoot quickly, I hit right on target.

Anyway the Kahr's trigger is much shorter (tho not much lighter) and it breaks before I manage to yank the gun down, or so I am guessing.

I don't yet own a Kahr, my friend has two and I have shot his.

We'll figure this out yet. :)

See ya-

DoubleJ wrote:Oriental chick? is she a rug?

no thanks. I can dress my self, and I'm happily married.

altho this definitely took this thread in a whole new direction!!!

You're right Disturbed... I plan to try your suggestion pronto. Are you using that "Academy" holster IWB? I was going to pick up one of those anyway since it seems to be just a handy holster to clip to just about anything (like the map pocket in the car, inside my range bag, etc.).

I think it's clear that I don't belong in this forum. Thanks to those of you who have offered useful advice. The answer to the question about whether I can carry my Sigma with my clothing requirements is now obviously "no". How hard is that? Instead so many said "of course you can, once you change your clothing".

If anyone wants to discuss this further, PM me.

Sorry M9FAN, it's only a perfect analogy if there is NO OTHER WAY than to adjust my clothing.

and clearly, there is another way.

Thanks, Ted.

The gun I bought works for the purpose for which I bought it, which is home defense. It is high capacity, comfortable to shoot and I enjoy practicing with it. But it looks like it probably won't work as a carry weapon.

When I bought it I didn't intend to carry. The more I considered what is the point of owning a gun that's locked in a safe at home, the more I realized I needed to carry. Now I fully intend to get another gun at some point but the question is always, do I get another HD gun, or do I get a dedicated carry gun? I was planning on getting a dedicated carry gun but right now, I don't have one, and if I could find a way to carry this one for a while, it'd be fab.

Thanks for the offer of info. I may contact you.

fm2 wrote:Part of your frustration is your sliding requirements.

I have been very consistent in pointing out that I don't often wear a belt, and when I do wear a belt, it is not one sufficient for a gun belt. When pressed about changing my wardrobe to include a gun belt, I thought I was pretty clear, I am not going to do that.

If wearing a belt is too much of a hassle and an unreasonable change, you should have just said so up front.

I thought I expressed, four times at least by your quotation, that I was not planning to routinely wear a gun belt.

Next time, I'll just post right up. Hear ye! Hear ye! No matter how many times you recommend it, I am not going to wear a gun belt!

What have you tried so far? You can also come to the forum day @ PSC and try holsters there.

I am having enough of a hard time finding ANY holster that doesn't require a belt. Then on top of that, it's not like I can just walk into Sportsman's Warehouse, unpackage their holsters, whip out my Sigma and start trying stuff on.

So I concede. I have tried my Smartcarry. I have evaluated (using pictures, descriptions, and holding them in my hand inside a package) a number of those which are available but I have not tried any of them with my own gun and my own clothing.

I don't know what PSC is BTW.

You should think about a small fixed blade knife for IWB carry.

wow.

Carrying a handgun is a change to most peoples lives. They make that change after the realization that they are responsible for their safety, and consider the handgun a benefit to to their personal safety plan. Some people don't think it's worth the bother.

What are some other key things that make people feel like outsiders?

The attitude you just expressed is the main one. The suggestion that I should carry a knife instead is another good example.

The whole idea that CCW is sort of like a clique you have to join along with learning new language, changing your clothing, changing your ideas about other unrelated things etc. It's the whole package. I don't expect most people who have been around guns all of their lives to understand this point. You have already been conditioned to believe that your outlook is normal. However I can tell you that as an adult who only in the past six months has been serious about owning or carrying a gun, the impact of the way this changes my lifestyle is just way too much. The vibe I get in general (and not just this forum, but others and other face to face contact with gun people) is that is truly "us" and "them"... and frankly I like "them" better.

I don't like that my mother all of the sudden thinks I have become a "gun nut". I don't want to show up for Thanksgiving dinner wearing clothes that are obviously out of character for me and have my mom suddenly giving me the third degree about whether I am carrying. I absolutely cannot tolerate this kind of questioning in one of my jobs. It's not just some kind of personal preference thing. Not everybody thinks it's normal to carry a gun every day. I don't care to get into that debate with people. I don't want anyone to notice anything different about me, and I don't want to actually have to be any different just in order to be prepared.

You suggest I some people don't think it's "worth the bother". You know, it's a much bigger bother to those people. It's a huge bother to me to find a way to carry a useful weapon without advertising to thousands of people that something is different. This is not just small deal. I have two very important, apparently incompatible needs. It doesn't help when, rather than give useful advice, knowledgeable persons dismiss these people as lacking commitment to the safety of themselves or their family simply because they have other things in their life that have to work together and not just CCW.

So like I say, I'll plan to sometimes carrying with my Smartcarry and saving some gig money for a more concealable gun.

Makes me wonder if there isn't a market for products to work with someone with my restrictions on wardrobe who want to CCW.

I'm in NW Austin suburbs

thejtrain wrote: Unfortunately, what I would have said (again, based solely on my own limited experience, others here may disagree) is that you'd be very hard-pressed to make a full-size pistol work in ANY kind of WB carry (inside or outside) without a belt of some kind. ... as I suspect, ends up being "no", then neither IWB nor OWB is likely to work at all, and it's time to be practical & realistic and consider something else (either carry location or the gun itself).

That's exactly the conclusion I am coming to right now.

Next step for me is most likely a different gun, which is where I started

thanks JT..

Wildscar wrote: First off there is no need to do this one your own. You asked for advice and that’s what we are giving. I am sorry that is not
the answer you want to hear.

Dude, there is a difference between "not the answer you want to hear" and "not an answer that applies to the problem at hand".

Before you go off all half cocked and degrade members of this forum by calling them “significantly overweight�

I wonder if this isn't where I touched the nerve.

It was not my intent. I am 190lb now, and 6 years ago I was nearly 270. I spent my entire life before age 30 being very overweight. I got down as low as 175ish. I really don't mean to degrade anyone about being overweight but it does make most of the demonstrations of how to carry a full-size weapon irrelevant when the people demonstrating this have a very different body type than I do.

As for garments being over sized they are not. I wear the same thing whether I am carrying or not.

Ok so I don't know you or what you look like, your body type or what you wear, but I can speak from my own experience having been overweight most of my life. When I was overweight, I wore oversized clothes. I wore shirts that would not even get close to snug against my waist line. It actually took me a while to get used to the feeling of clothes fitting against my body all the time after I lost all the weight and bought new clothes. So even though you say you don't wear oversized clothes, my experience is that overweight people (which included me) almost always wear oversized clothes. Or maybe more accurately, clothes made for overweight people are almost always much more loose-fitting than those made for slimmer people.

So I don't think it automatically applies that if someone 6' tall and 250lb can conceal a big gun, then that means someone 6' tall and 200 lb can conceal one that is 20% smaller.

So unless the “CLOTHES IN’ your “CLOSET� are all made out of spandex you should be able to conceal a Sigma with the right placement and orientation. I would even venture to guess that you could do it with a cheap nylon holster from uncle mikes that no more than $20 bucks.

You know I actually do have a lot of clothes that are made of "spandex"... but I am a cyclist.

anyway... I would seriously consider any IWB holster that did not require a stiff belt, particularly if I could try it. I don't mind spending $50-100 on it either. I just don't want to spend $50-100 on some internet order thing, wait 6 weeks for it to get here, then find that it won't work and stick it in a box and have to go try another one...

Basically it’s going to boil down to finding what works for you and that goes for everyone. We can give suggestions and you can pick and choose.

I guess I can... but then you say something like

Since you seem to shoot everyone Ideas and suggestions down about holsters

which means I can't pick and choose without being blown off.

I'm not shooting anyone's ideas down. I am sure those ideas and suggestions work fine for other people but I can tell from one look that they obviously won't work for me. So I am going to pick and choose not to follow those pieces of advice, because they are not applicable to my situation. Seems some folks recommend I change my question so it better fits the answer.

I guess my current plan is to carry the Sigma in the Smartcarry when I can, and the rest of the time, leave it locked up at home until I can raise funds for a smaller pistol.

Wildscar wrote: I hope you find what works for you I really do.

You can see how I doubt your sincerity.

So far the only limits I see are the ones you are placing on yourself.

You mean, the only limits are the CLOTHES IN MY CLOSET

[rant]
You know this is the single most irritating thing about many gun-carrying folks. It's the overt opinion that once you decide to carry concealed, then every other part of your life needs to be re-oriented around it, otherwise you are being unreasonable. C'mon people, I know some of you are really interested in helping but I asked specifically for information about making something with within my totally normal and reasonable situation.

If you really want to help, then help. If you are going to parrot the advice of "try a series of a $100 holsters, a stiff gun belt, and XL shirts to cover it all" then you know what? That advice is not helpful to me at all.

This is one of the key things that keeps "outsiders" on the "outside".
[/rant]

Never mind. I shall go back to figuring this out on my own.

sorry to hijack this thread ...

let me clarify something real quick...

IF my Sigma is NOT going to EVER work, then I don't want to waste any money trying a whole bunch of holsters in a vain effort to make it work.

Instead I'd rather invest that holster money in a pistol more likely to work (I mean, I should be able to conceal a Kel-Tec PF9 in the worst case, and maybe if I'm lucky a Kahr CW9?) and a holster for THAT pistol.

I'm not trying to reject everyone's advice but it all seems to be counter to my purposes. I am not going to change my wardrobe. If the Sigma can't work, then so be it. I'll save up and buy something smaller.

JLaw wrote: Like longtooth said, get a good belt.

longtooth wrote: A quality gun belt w/ a quality holster is the key to full size carry.
The combination keeps it tight, stable, & comfortable. A good GunBelt is worth every penny.

Part A of the rub. I don't routinely wear a belt. When I do, it's absolutely not a stiff gun belt.

JLaw wrote: When I buy shirts I find the one that fits me then buy the next size up.

And here we are again with oversized clothes.

agbullet2k1 wrote: 6'2", 225, 38 inch waist, 34 inseem. I shop at American Eagle, Gap, Dillards, Macy's, Jos. A Bank, Banana Republic, etc. My wife insists, very strongly, that I be fashionable at all times. I wear a CTAC IWB at about 4:00, and with a button up dress shirt, tucked or untucked,

The only times I have tucked in shirts in the past 5 years are when I had to go to a funeral or I had a wedding gig. Maybe when I was playing on Easter each year (I am a musician).

I guess here's the other part of my problem.

There is literally no way for me to try any of these holsters. The CTACs start at about $50. That's a pricey experiment given that I seriously doubt it will work. All of the other holsters that get recommended are also $50-100. Most require a belt (which I don't usually wear) so I know they will not work for me. But still I don't want to collect $400 box full of holsters in order to finally come back and say definitively that I cannot make it work.

So I guess since I am unlikely to adjust my wardrobe to include a gun belt, and I am extremely skeptical of any IWB holster that does not require a belt, then I am back to square one.

OK, now I have a couple of pairs of jeans like this (which I wear 90% of the time without a belt):



The fit me just about like they fit the guy in the pic. When I do wear a belt it's because I have to clip wireless equipment to it, which means I am going to be on stage in front of a few thousand people lifting the tail of my shirt messing with my wireless gear before the downbeat. I won't be carrying at that time.

In the summer I also tend to wear cargo shorts not unlike these:



Again, those I wear with a belt but it's a cotton/canvas belt and it's not really very tight. Just tight enough to keep the shorts from falling smooth off.

In either case I don't wear shirts tucked in. 90% of the time I wear a t-shirt untucked. I don't mind wearing a wicking tank top under the t-shirt (tucked in).

I don't look like a Bowflex pitch man but I am a cyclist with a moderately athletic build.

I have found that I can conceal my Sigma with the Smartcarry and the cargo shorts no problem. Those are rather baggy. I think a belly band would likely work better since I could wear it up a little higher easier. I have found that I can't use the Smartcarry with my normal jeans... there's just not enough vertical space (it ends up mexican carry... butt of the gun over the belt line). If I want to carry with jeans, I have to pick some of my jeans that don't fit so well (baggy, higher-waisted) and then I have to wear a belt to keep them from falling off. Of course my wife hassles me about my choice of clothes when I do this.

So right now I guess I am seriously considering buying a much smaller gun (see my sig). I'd rather find a way to carry the Sigma.

Still looking for suggestions... maybe without XL shirts and a stiff belt.