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It wasn't me with the cart, but one really should not pretend to be all understanding and compassionate in one post and then come back in another post bragging about punching a helpless homeless person. Insinuating that somehow you have a better grasp on how to deal with people than I do, in that same post, makes me chuckle just a little.

Anyway...I will be polite and kind to vagrants who aggressively approach me on the streets the day after dogs grow wings and start flying. In the meanwhile, if you would be so kind as to give me a phone number or something, I will be more than happy to send them all to you so you can punch them for me.

dihappy wrote: The only time things didnt go my way was when the drunk who didnt understand "sorry i cant help you sir", grabbed my shoulder as i was walking away, after which i turned and popped him in the face with my fist.

Guess we just have different people skills :)

Yeah...sounds like your right. We definitely have a different set of people skills.

dihappy wrote:

I am not sure how some of you fellers think you can determine the level of the threat when approached aggressively by a stranger in a parking lot. I have been approached by bums all over the country and I can say that I am quite mean and nasty at them. How dare they think they have some kind of right to approach me or my family begging for anything. Personally, I have nothing but contempt for a person who is healthy enough to hang around parking lots begging but not healthy enough to get a job at the grocery store bagging groceries. They are dangerous in my opinion. They are about one step away from just stealing what they want.

I have issued every conceivable threat known to these blights on the community. My first words are always..."Get Away From Me". They have about a tenth of a second to start moving the other direction before I begin to move aggressively at them. The next warning is always more aggressive than the first and usually includes one or more of the following... "or I will beat the tar out of you", "or I will break your neck", or "I will run over you with my truck", "or I will knock you out with this (insert what ever I am holding that can knock a person out), "or you won't have to worry about eating anymore". Admittedly, I have never said "or I will shoot you in the face"...LOL...I love this one and may use it myself one day, but the single most relevant reason I never say "or I will shoot you" is because I like my gun defense to be a surprise and don't want to let them know I have it until I say "stop or I will reload".

I am kidding around just a little here, just a little cause I have said some of these things when approached in public by strangers, but I feel bums and vagabonds deserve to be treated like rodents. These folks are typically desperate and this makes them somewhat dangerous. You folks that say the poster was wrong to get aggressive may very well find yourselves at an extreme disadvantage in a mugging some day. Many muggings start out as an approach asking for cigarettes, food, quarters, change...what ever. Why allow them to get close enough to do damage? This risk may be OK for you. For me......I will continue to get mid-evil on any stranger approaching me in public.

You want to do something Christian? Tell them to get a job. Rewarding the bum behavior only encourages it to continue.

Completely disagree. Just because you choose to try and "De-escalate" the situation does not mean you are not prepared to "escalate" it if things dont work out.

People who are not in full control of their mental faculties will not react to a threat like a normal person would, its my opinion and many others whos books ive read, that you should do your best not to escalate a situation with threats, rude language, etc.

Believe me, the times i have "de-escalated" the two situations ive been in, i was more than ready to "go" if i had to.

And I completely disagree with you. MY many experiences with bums and possible muggers sizing me up says different. I have yet to see a bum or beggar respond to kind gentle requests. Typically it encourages negotiations while they size you up. Not every bum or beggar hangs around for a second or third "get away". Matter of fact...most move along rather quickly with a simple go away...I can't help you or an I'm not interested in what ever your offering. The ones who persist are the very ones you better worry about.

My technique no more encourages an escalation than a woman encourages rape for wearing sexy cloths. If a BG has bad intentions, being a kinder gentler guy is not going to change his mind. Being unapproachable serves to keep the distance at a level I can deal with. I won't be kind and polite while I allow them to walk up on me.

I am not sure how some of you fellers think you can determine the level of the threat when approached aggressively by a stranger in a parking lot. I have been approached by bums all over the country and I can say that I am quite mean and nasty at them. How dare they think they have some kind of right to approach me or my family begging for anything. Personally, I have nothing but contempt for a person who is healthy enough to hang around parking lots begging but not healthy enough to get a job at the grocery store bagging groceries. They are dangerous in my opinion. They are about one step away from just stealing what they want.

I have issued every conceivable threat known to these blights on the community. My first words are always..."Get Away From Me". They have about a tenth of a second to start moving the other direction before I begin to move aggressively at them. The next warning is always more aggressive than the first and usually includes one or more of the following... "or I will beat the tar out of you", "or I will break your neck", or "I will run over you with my truck", "or I will knock you out with this (insert what ever I am holding that can knock a person out), "or you won't have to worry about eating anymore". Admittedly, I have never said "or I will shoot you in the face"...LOL...I love this one and may use it myself one day, but the single most relevant reason I never say "or I will shoot you" is because I like my gun defense to be a surprise and don't want to let them know I have it until I say "stop or I will reload".

I am kidding around just a little here, just a little cause I have said some of these things when approached in public by strangers, but I feel bums and vagabonds deserve to be treated like rodents. These folks are typically desperate and this makes them somewhat dangerous. You folks that say the poster was wrong to get aggressive may very well find yourselves at an extreme disadvantage in a mugging some day. Many muggings start out as an approach asking for cigarettes, food, quarters, change...what ever. Why allow them to get close enough to do damage? This risk may be OK for you. For me......I will continue to get mid-evil on any stranger approaching me in public.

You want to do something Christian? Tell them to get a job. Rewarding the bum behavior only encourages it to continue.

Purplehood wrote:

shootthesheet wrote:The last thing I want to do is be forced to shoot someone. I don't want the problems involved in doing so. I will if I have to but it will not be over something as small as property and especially not over a cart of food. You should have been more aware of your surrounding so he didn't get that close. That is something you will learn with time. You should never escalate a bad situation by threatening to shoot someone in the face. You lost your cool and didn't mean it but if the guy calls and tells a LEO then you may get slammed. What if he pulled a gun because of your threat? That is my point in all this. I am not flaming you and really am on your side in this. I just don't want you to go around thinking you are justified in threatening to shoot someone over nothing. He was old and I assume you could beat him to death without much effort. You have a gun and a better reaction time than he has. Self-control is a major part of CHL and that is what I am concerned about. You do as you see fit but please consider what I posted.

I don't see it that way at all.

If you are moving/loading/unloading groceries you can be as "aware" of your surroundings as possible and still be pretty much subject to incidents like this happening. What do you do? Yell at him from 10 cars away to stay away? Turn around and head back to the store because you saw him in the parking lot? There is no way to anticipate if the guy was headed your way in the first place, and if you could, it was because he was close to you and obviously headed your way.

Any preemptive action that you could have taken could have been seen as overreacting to a threat that may have never happened. If you don't like what you see, turn around and wait or tell security. But if you are in the middle of unloading groceries and kids into your vehicle, that gives plenty of time and opportunity for a guy to show up univited at your carside. How do you and your "situational awareness" handle that? You stop what you are doing and address it.

I think the OP handled it well and should not be denigrated for failure to be "aware".

In addition, there is an assumption that you should be able to handle the guy physically. What leads one to believe that the OP is in a position to do that? You might also take into account that beating up an old-guy sure does not look good to a bystander. Get him out of there with the least fuss and emotion seems the best way to me. No bystander saw a gun, no bystander saw fists flying. All they apparently would have noticed was a guy having sharp-words and the "bum" letting go of someone else's cart and moving away.

....especially with the statement I highlighted.

frazzled wrote: But if you touch me, or touch my stuff I'm going to freak out. I think most people are going to freak out and go into threat mode.

Was it you that had the cell phone get used as an ashtray?

LaserTex wrote:Had to go get some groceries at HEB. I parked off to the side (not directly in front of the HEB doors but off to the side in the main FRONT parking lot - not on the side of the buiding.) I parked to the right of an old UHaul panel truck. A small car was on my passenger side.

Went in, got the stuff and was putting it in the passenger floorboard on my truck. The small car left and van was parked there. UHaul was still there. Point is, I couldn't see either direction other than along my truck - front to back. I was in the open door of my truck with the basket basically blocking me in (pulled cart in behind me as I opened the door.)

I had put 2 bags in the floorboard, turned back to get 2 more bags and saw my basket getting pulled back. I looked up and an older black man (obviously either homeless or without any way to do laundry) pulling my basket out from between the van and my truck. As I grabbed the front of the basket he says "give me some change and I'll give you your basket." He didn't sound threatening and he was smiling but I was a tad bit startled and just a wee bit upset (changed for 10 year old rule - I'm learning). I reply, "give me my basket or I'll shot you in the face." Didn't yell but was trying to sound intemidating. I never reached for nor did I pull my weapon (as that would have been wrong.) He turned and walked away quickly. I watched and he crossed the parking lot. I quickly finished putting my groceries in the truck, shut the door, locked the truck, pushed the cart to the holder thingie. Came back, got in my truck and drove out. As I crossed the main street in front of HEB, the man is standing on the corner with a "I am homeless and hungry. Please help. God bless you?" sign seeking contributions.

Now, a day later...I am wondering if I might have done wrong by threatening even if I made no indication at all that I would or could follow up on the threat. Did I mess up?

Doug edited to fix 10 year old rule and numerous spelling mistakes. sorry

I liked your wording and I believe you were within the law with your warning. I would love to read an opinion from someone more familiar with the law.

I was confronted/approached by a guy in Dallas a few weeks back. My daughter was with me and she was on the side of the truck he was approaching. She was all excited about where we were going and didn't hear me when I told her to stay in the truck. She jumps out and starts walking right toward this guy. I told him to back off. He hesitated and started to walk toward us again. I then moved my hand to a spot just over my weapon on my side and said, last warning, get away from us. He turned and walked away fast. meanwhile my happy go lucky daughter did not even notice a situation developing. She got to hear me rag on her for the next 10 minutes about staying alert to her surroundings.

Point is, I never actually said I was going to shoot his face...LOL...but I kind of insinuated it by my body movements....scary thing is, having my daughter between me and him was causing me to react more harshly than I would if she had not been walking right at this thug looking dude. PS...he was also really big...big as in muscular and tall...not fat and out of shape. he could have been a handful for me to wrestle to the ground.