TexasCHLforum.com

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 8:45 pm

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 5:09 pm Self defense when called for does not require i work my way up the ladder. If it is called for there will be no doubt in my case. I don't blast people unless my life is on the line.

I get it, and I don’t mean to imply that your response to a threat must progress along a continuum before you can respond with deadly force. For me, OC spray is merely an option I have available in the toolbox if that seems appropriate. That doesn’t mean that it’s necessarily the tool I must use first before going to guns. Having options is good; but having them doesn’t mean that you have to use them if circumstances don’t dictate it.

I hear you. I don't have a problem with anyone who chooses to use OC/pepper spray. It is just not for me. I have trouble grabbing the right remote when I exit a store, I just can't imagine standing around having an internal debate with myself about whether or not OC spray will stop an attacker. Tell you what though. If I am ever with you when we are attacked, you spray them with the OC and while they are distracted, I will put a couple rounds in them.

Ten or so years ago I was in Dayton Ohio for an extended time because my brother had suffered a pulmonary embolism and was in a coma. He recovered by the way but his personality has definitely been affected and he does not think near as fast as he did before hand. Anyway, I was picking up some supplies at a grocery store near the hospital. Kind of a rough part of town. I spotted a medium sized homeless looking guy following along beside me from a distance. I even rerouted my walking and sure enough, he followed. So I get to my parked truck and there was a fence behind my truck and another vehicle parked beside me. I was trapped with one way out. I throw the groceries in the truck right quick and keeping my attention on homeless guy notice him coming at me. I immediately held my hand up at him and said go away. He kept on coming. I then raised my shirt and got a grip on my sidearm while saying again...get away. He stopped, looked at my hand gripping the sidearm and turned and left. IMHO, wasting time trying to squirt pepper spray in his face would not have been an option. A guy can pull a knife and stab me by the time I deploy spray and then decide to go for my gun. Nope, not me, he was ten feet away and that was plenty close enough. Bad guys can still grab you even after being sprayed. Especially if they are hopped up on drugs. Pepper spray might even make them madder. Self defense when called for does not require i work my way up the ladder. If it is called for there will be no doubt in my case. I don't blast people unless my life is on the line.

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 2:59 pm

OTH, you try to wipe a green boogie on me, you gonna die.

K.Mooneyham wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 11:16 am

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 7:01 am

Excaliber wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:44 am

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:41 am

K.Mooneyham wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 12:12 am So, serious question, what does Texas law have to say about the use of OC/Pepper Spray? Where does it fall in the use of force spectrum? Applying it to a hypothetical real world scenario, what would the potential ramifications be of using it on an overly aggressive homeless guy who doesn't have any weapon in hand? By overly aggressive, I mean physically coming at you, trying to put hands on you? I know there could be a thousand different situations, but I'm just trying to think of a situation where it might be useful.

If the situation calls for OC/Pepper spray, it seems to me it also calls for deadly force. I have no intentions at my age of engaging in a hand to hand combat with an aggressor.

We can't attack someone just because they won't quit badgering us verbally. It seems they would have to be coming at us with a weapon or with an attempt at hands on contact. OC/Pepper spray is just affective enough to allow them to stab you or crack you over the head with a bat or stick. Maybe punch you in the face and knock you out. Sorry folks, I am no cop and if I need to use self defense, I am going with my most affective stopping power first. OC/Pepper spray is OK for the "ninja warrior" wanna be but for me I am stopping the threat as affectively as the law allows.

The "as effectively as the law allows" part is the problem.

Example: Unwanted touching is not a situation where the law generally allows deadly force (unless you've got an awfully good and imaginative lawyer and a lot of money to spend on him) but is a situation where OC can get the aggressor to back off with little risk of injury to yourself.

It has a place on the use of force spectrum and can save you a lot of unnecessary grief in unpleasant situations. That's why many LEO's carry it.

At 61 years of age, I have yet to feel the need to squirt OC spray at someone for touching me. I can't imagine a scenario where some homeless guy just walks up and touches me. And if he did, I would not shoot him or even squirt pepper spray in his face. I pass by folks all the time in stores and other situations where they might brush up against me(touch me) and again, never feel the need to attack them. The totality of the situation determines my response. "I have a boogie on my finger and am gonna wipe it on you." Would not compel me to either shoot a guy or squirt him with OC spray. I would try to back away. Boogies on finger touching really gross me out.

I obviously did a poor job of describing the scenario. I didn't mean a simple unwanted touch or brush up against, or simply panhandling. I meant coming toward you in an aggressive manner (visibly angry or otherwise extremely mentally agitated, lot of homeless folks have mental problems and/or are drunk/on drugs), hurling invectives, trying to grab you, etc. But, again, without any weapon in hand.

So he is attacking me? I am gonna stop him. If I was 6'5" tall and 32 years old, maybe I would try hand to hand combat and hope he doesn't pull a knife out and stab me. But then again, the law would allow me to stop the aggressor. That is the whole damned point in carrying concealed. To protect myself from an attack that could easily result in my death.

Excaliber wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 6:44 am

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 4:41 am

K.Mooneyham wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 12:12 am So, serious question, what does Texas law have to say about the use of OC/Pepper Spray? Where does it fall in the use of force spectrum? Applying it to a hypothetical real world scenario, what would the potential ramifications be of using it on an overly aggressive homeless guy who doesn't have any weapon in hand? By overly aggressive, I mean physically coming at you, trying to put hands on you? I know there could be a thousand different situations, but I'm just trying to think of a situation where it might be useful.

If the situation calls for OC/Pepper spray, it seems to me it also calls for deadly force. I have no intentions at my age of engaging in a hand to hand combat with an aggressor.

We can't attack someone just because they won't quit badgering us verbally. It seems they would have to be coming at us with a weapon or with an attempt at hands on contact. OC/Pepper spray is just affective enough to allow them to stab you or crack you over the head with a bat or stick. Maybe punch you in the face and knock you out. Sorry folks, I am no cop and if I need to use self defense, I am going with my most affective stopping power first. OC/Pepper spray is OK for the "ninja warrior" wanna be but for me I am stopping the threat as affectively as the law allows.

The "as effectively as the law allows" part is the problem.

Example: Unwanted touching is not a situation where the law generally allows deadly force (unless you've got an awfully good and imaginative lawyer and a lot of money to spend on him) but is a situation where OC can get the aggressor to back off with little risk of injury to yourself.

It has a place on the use of force spectrum and can save you a lot of unnecessary grief in unpleasant situations. That's why many LEO's carry it.

At 61 years of age, I have yet to feel the need to squirt OC spray at someone for touching me. I can't imagine a scenario where some homeless guy just walks up and touches me. And if he did, I would not shoot him or even squirt pepper spray in his face. I pass by folks all the time in stores and other situations where they might brush up against me(touch me) and again, never feel the need to attack them. The totality of the situation determines my response. "I have a boogie on my finger and am gonna wipe it on you." Would not compel me to either shoot a guy or squirt him with OC spray. I would try to back away. Boogies on finger touching really gross me out.

K.Mooneyham wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 12:12 am So, serious question, what does Texas law have to say about the use of OC/Pepper Spray? Where does it fall in the use of force spectrum? Applying it to a hypothetical real world scenario, what would the potential ramifications be of using it on an overly aggressive homeless guy who doesn't have any weapon in hand? By overly aggressive, I mean physically coming at you, trying to put hands on you? I know there could be a thousand different situations, but I'm just trying to think of a situation where it might be useful.

If the situation calls for OC/Pepper spray, it seems to me it also calls for deadly force. I have no intentions at my age of engaging in a hand to hand combat with an aggressor.

We can't attack someone just because they won't quit badgering us verbally. It seems they would have to be coming at us with a weapon or with an attempt at hands on contact. OC/Pepper spray is just affective enough to allow them to stab you or crack you over the head with a bat or stick. Maybe punch you in the face and knock you out. Sorry folks, I am no cop and if I need to use self defense, I am going with my most affective stopping power first. OC/Pepper spray is OK for the "ninja warrior" wanna be but for me I am stopping the threat as affectively as the law allows.

My theory on OC/Pepper spray is that if I am in a situation that calls for OC/Pepper spray, I am likely also in a situation requiring self defense using deadly force. Using OC/Pepper spray first may cost me my life as they stab me from getting up close. Now I am not going to use any weapon on someone because they ask me for money or spare change. I will be hand on my weapon, just in case, but not until I feel in jeopardy for my life.

I have had street people ask for money/spare change. I just say, "sorry, I don't carry cash." and watch them as I keep moving. The article said, "aggressively approaches". Not sure what exactly that means but maybe she wouldn't walk away and kept coming at her.