TexasCHLforum.com

troglodyte wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:03 pm .......

I did find it interesting that the LEOs are being taught the 30.05 has to have the same sign requirements of the 06/07, assuming that gentleman was correct. He seemed to be reading from something official in nature.

If you're talking about physical requirements for the sign there are the same.

PC 30.05
(c) A person may provide notice that firearms are prohibited on the property by posting a sign at each entrance to the property that:

(1) includes language that is identical to or substantially similar to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.05, Penal Code (criminal trespass), a person may not enter this property with a firearm";

(2) includes the language described by Subdivision (1) in both English and Spanish;

(3) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and

(4) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

troglodyte wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:32 pm

KC5AV wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:08 pm Ten hour round-trip drive, and a night in a hotel, and the 'class' lasted 1 hour. That 1 hour included the time to take the test and have it graded.

12 hours round-trip, hotel, and a PTO day. I overheard one gentleman say he was from Stratford.

They couldn't give a good answer to most of the questions. You'd think the DPS would anticipate the most common questions and get the AG to make an interpretation.

I was hoping for a better answer to if an LTC could carry under "Permitless Carry" if a business posted a 30.06/30.07 sign but no 30.05.

I asked the instructor about that during the break and he said that they were aware of the traffic that question is generating but DPS had not gotten any clarification.

howdy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:27 pm I attended the afternoon Aug 12 class. We were out at 3pm...test and all. Our class was full. They have verbal "pop tests" during the class and the written test at the end is a rehash of the pop tests. Everyone makes 100. I asked about the blue "unlicensed possession" sign and was told they don't know if that sign will be eliminated. They said they had heard both it will and will not. They said they heard that liquor stores might keep it and grocery stores will not. More coming out later. During the break, I asked the Instructor if WE (instructors) could quality with the .22LR. He was not 100% on this but said his understanding is we must still use .32 or better. I qualified last weekend with a great group of west Houston (1 Palacios) Instructors. We were discussing this subject and we all felt we needed to use the higher caliber handguns. One Instructor said he had a hard time finding 38 special ammo. The class in held in a Mall "conference" center (Northcross Mall) The venue is called Norris Conference Center. Follow your GPS closely because it will turn you into the mall parking lot and basically say you are there. There is a Panda Express, Schlotsky's and a Wal-Mart in the same parking lot.

And the Norris Conference Center is 30.07 posted. Should have mentioned that up front. Sign is in the window to the left.

You must have had a smarter class, a few people around me missed one or two. I brain farted one. There was one question that was a gimmie for us because it was so poorly worded. They said it would be reworded by today.

Mike S wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:27 am

jmorris wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:58 pm

HB2675 (not pertinent to LTC instructors directly) At Risk License
LTC will be issued without training to anyone considered at risk because of a protective order, restraining order, etc. Same cost.
Will be indicated on LTC.
Minimum age 21.
Ends when order is over.
All members of household eligible.

SB19 (not pertinent to LTC instructors directly) Protective Order License
Minimum age 18 with protective order. Basically same of HB2675 except for age. Ends at age 21 then At Risk license may be issued.

A couple of clarifications were made to these bills at the 12 August a.m. class.

- An LTC-100/LTC-101 is still required for the 'At Risk' licences (HB2675 & SB19). LTC Instructors don't need to verify anything, & students don't need to tell you what type of license they're applying for (BLUF: it's DPS' responsibility to verify supporting documents, not the Instructors). If Instructors don't want to provide instruction to those under 21 y.o. as a business decision, then don't.

- The major difference is that RSD will expedite issuance of these licenses. RSD will issue within 10 days of receiving all supporting documents.

- HB2675 all members of household 21 y.o. & older may apply for expedited license; SB19 only applies for the individual, NOT all members of the household (I would assume the remaining members of the household that are 21 y.o. & older would still be able to apply under HB2675, but didn't think to ask).

- For LTCs issued under SB19, the RSD will require the LTC holder to submit supporting documents annually to verify the protective order is still in effect.

- If I understood the presenter correctly, LTCs issued under HB2675 & SB19 would have "At Risk" or something printed across the top, similar to how "Instructor" or "Veteran" now is. When the condition making the holder eligible for the "At Risk" license no longer exists (ie, protective order expiration), licenses will be reissued without the "At Risk" across the top. Wasn't clear if LTCs issued under SB19 for those under 21 y.o. would be reissued their LTC without the "At Risk" once the conditions no longer exist, or if the LTC would be revoked & require a new application upon reaching 21 y.o.

This is a change. They specifically stated this was not really pertinent to instructors and it certainly sounded as if no instruction/proficiency was required and that they would expire at the end of the condition. They did state on the 10th that these LTCs would have At Risk or Protection Order printed on them and that the Protection Order would be reissued as At Risk if the condition still existed.

Tex1961 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:19 am

AF-Odin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:01 am Thanks very much for the update. I go on the 24th. Talked with one of my colleagues who attended morning session on 10th and he stated that the seminar conducted by a private entity was a) more professional. b) more informative, and c) provided much more authoritative information. One would think that DPS would work with the AGs office to ensure they have the right legal read on what a law really means, but oh well. Hope the new test is better than the last one. I am almost embarrassed with some of the current questions.

Agree... I just checked and the new test isn't published yet.

Correct. They said by August 31 which had quite a few instructors concerned, especially the online. Plus, the password is changing so until you get your certificate you couldn't access it anyway.

Please correct me if I misunderstood anything and add anything that changed or got added in the following classes. There were at least a couple times when they said they were going to change slides (and this didn't count the spelling errors).

New certificate with password is expected to be mailed within a couple weeks of class (if your LTC-100 has been uploaded). New test and materials will be available by August 31. Teach to new test starting September 1st. I'm sorry but I didn't think to ask (and no one else did) what about those that won't do the update until later in the year. Maybe someone will tomorrow. Instructors did express their opinion about having little or no time to update their presentations. Online course providers were especially unhappy.

HB1927
First slide confused me a bit. It had a line that said HB1927 allowed those over 21 to open carry in a holster. What that really meant was over 21 can carry and if open carrying it must be in a holster.
Benefits of still having an LTC.
- Required for campus carry.
- No NICS check
- Reciprocity
- Voter ID
- 30.05 does not apply
- Carry in government meeting (unless posted of course)
- Protection on accidental carry in secured area of airport
- Only cost $8 a year anyway

HB1069
Allows first responders to carry while on duty. Must have LTC and be trained.
DPS will set the standards for training, working on course now, expected by 2022
Course will be administrated by LTC instructor
Will be like School Safety.
Requires yearly continuing education

HB2112/SB550
Remove "belt and shoulder", just holster now.

HB1920
Amends secure area of an airport to include all commercial aviation parking areas. Does not include general aviation area.
Excludes all general areas-baggage claim, parking, pickup areas, etc.

SB20
Hotels cannot prohibit firearms in room, to/from rooms, in vehicles.
They can set policy on how firearms can be transferred so you may have to have it in gun case and not on you.
Doesn't mean you can wander around hotel if posted.
Applies to both LTC and permitless.

HB2675 (not pertinent to LTC instructors directly Changed, see Mike S note) At Risk License
LTC will be issued without training to anyone considered at risk because of a protective order, restraining order, etc. Same cost.
Will be indicated on LTC.
Minimum age 21.
Ends when order is over.
All members of household eligible.

SB19 (not pertinent to LTC instructors directly Changed, see Mike S note) Protective Order License
Minimum age 18 with protective order. Basically same of HB2675 except for age. Ends at age 21 then At Risk license may be issued.

30.05 Sign
Law gives sign verbiage but it says "or similar" so it's not specific. Must be likely to come to a persons attention. I can fit it on 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper.
If you want to exclude everyone must post 05, 06, 07. (I talked to him afterwards about the "well, if there's 06/07 but no 05 I just leave my LTC in the car" argument. They are quite aware of it but have no opinion.)

46.03 Sign
46.035 gone, moved to 46.03. Sign is not a requirement. Then is no defense for CC.

51% sign
Only license holder provided protection if 51% sign not posted.
Blue sign gone.

LTC-100
If there is a problem with students application they have 90 days to fix the problem. Question asked, don't they have a year to finish application? No, 90 days. But 90 days will reset if another problem found.
Another questionable slide. Says if class is on two different days two LTC-8s must be submitted. Should have been if class and proficient is on two different days, two different LTC-8s required.
Rabbit hole from couple instructors. What if two different instructors give class and proficiency? Who does forms? Went round and round. Seems simple to me. First instructor keeps copy of LTC-100 he did with only his part signed. Second instructor signs his part and keeps copy with both parts signed. Each submits LTC-8 with his part marked pass/fail. Part of the problem seemed to be they thought the LTC-8 had to be marked for both class and proficiency. Maybe there should be a none block.
Number one problem with applications are errors on the LTC-100.

Misc
No DPS or State seal on any instructor materials.
No guest speaker for LTC material. (Hmm. No one asked what if the guest speaker was an LTC instructor. The instructor next to me was with [organization not to be named] and he said he did the use of force for some instructors.)
Insure you submit reports timely.
Insure incidental discharge forms are filed. Seems like they may have roundabout heard of it happening but never received reports but they didn't come right out and say that.
Videos don't count towards instruction time, at all. (Guy next to me knew instructor that taped his whole presentation and just played it. Have no idea if that counts.)
DO NOT advise a student on eligibility for license. If they have questions contact lawyer. (Yes, they said lawyer, don't argue with me about it.)

Record keeping
LTC-100 six years
Copy of lesson plan, slides, syllabus, etc

Q&A
Is handgun in holster visible sitting in car legal. "It depends" said the suit (no idea who he was, stood in back watching). DPS feels there are variables that make it situational dependent. He advised asking your county prosecutor how they feel about your case.
Retired law enforcement qualification can be done by LTC instructor but it is NOT the LTC course of fire. Check with DPS.
And my favorite. Someone asked if DPS still had a zero tolerance policy in regards to drinking. When pressed he explained that he told his students that they absolutely could not drink and carry.