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Kythas

LikesShinyThings wrote:
Kythas wrote:
Dave2 wrote:
Kythas wrote:I would guess it begins like it did in Syria and Libya. Some group would start organizing protests, probably via social media. These protest would become large and begin provoking authorities. Local authorities would begin to use some level of force to counter the protesters. Some of the protest organizers would take video of the authorities' actions and post them online, provoking other people to become angry and join in the protests. At some point, it would become too much for local officials to handle and the national government would step in. Organizers would then provoke the national government, most likely military at this point, who would again respond with force, which would get video taped and spread, causing other people to become angry, etc.
I thought the military couldn't be deployed against americans. Are you talking about the various State & National Guards, or are you implying Obama will try to do it anyway?
The various National Guard units would be the first to be deployed, yes. But if Martial Law were declared, the regular military would then be able to deploy.

The question to consider here is: if any military unit were to receive orders such as this, would the members of the unit and/or the commanders obey the order? How many soldiers, if any, would defect? Would entire units decide to disobey their orders at that point?
I used to think the same thing about the police. Then Katrina hit. 'nuf said.

Good point.

Kythas

Dave2 wrote:
Kythas wrote:I would guess it begins like it did in Syria and Libya. Some group would start organizing protests, probably via social media. These protest would become large and begin provoking authorities. Local authorities would begin to use some level of force to counter the protesters. Some of the protest organizers would take video of the authorities' actions and post them online, provoking other people to become angry and join in the protests. At some point, it would become too much for local officials to handle and the national government would step in. Organizers would then provoke the national government, most likely military at this point, who would again respond with force, which would get video taped and spread, causing other people to become angry, etc.
I thought the military couldn't be deployed against americans. Are you talking about the various State & National Guards, or are you implying Obama will try to do it anyway?

The various National Guard units would be the first to be deployed, yes. But if Martial Law were declared, the regular military would then be able to deploy.

The question to consider here is: if any military unit were to receive orders such as this, would the members of the unit and/or the commanders obey the order? How many soldiers, if any, would defect? Would entire units decide to disobey their orders at that point?

Kythas

Winchster wrote:
Heartland Patriot wrote:For all of you who say things like "revolution is coming" or a new civil war is in the offing, please tell me how this will happen? I mean, what will start it? Because let me explain something to you: it takes a LARGE GROUP of people to do something like that. If the group is too small, they are labeled "terrorists" or "extremists" or just plain crazies...and then law enforcement will be sicked on them, and they WILL get arrested. And the press WILL tell everyone that the nation was saved by law enforcement who arrested said terrorists, extremists, or crazies...and folks will believe whatever the press tells them to believe. I hate the current administration. I despise their principles, their ideology and their methodology. But, all I can do is tell others WHY I don't like them and then I can go to the polls and VOTE AGAINST the administration and hope that enough of those I talked to will do the same. That's it, there is NOTHING ELSE, until such time as a large enough group of people, AS A WHOLE, come together to do something different than that. Everything else is wishful thinking, even if a lot of folks are thinking the same thing. The Civil War happened because a number of states seceded and banded together in their succession. They lost, yes, but that isn't the point of what I am saying...they were able to make a go of it because they were large enough of a group to do so...otherwise, they would simply have been arrested or captured, and probably hung for treason or imprisoned. So, once again, I challenge any of you who do not love this administration to come up with a plan to get them out of office, and to still feel as if you haven't compromised your principles.
The only way either occurs, is after we have lost all our freedom. "Frogs in a pot" and all that, otherwise you are correct, the numbers are too small to make any appreciable difference. People don't truly appreciate the liberties that we have and won't even begin to make true steps to take them back until we live in an oppressive socialist society. THEN, revolution is possible.

It is my humble opinion, that the best thing that could possibly happen now is for a state, any state, to have the courage to stand up and tell the feds off. For example, if the citizens of the State of Texas, voted for secession and had the willingness to follow through.

I would guess it begins like it did in Syria and Libya. Some group would start organizing protests, probably via social media. These protest would become large and begin provoking authorities. Local authorities would begin to use some level of force to counter the protesters. Some of the protest organizers would take video of the authorities' actions and post them online, provoking other people to become angry and join in the protests. At some point, it would become too much for local officials to handle and the national government would step in. Organizers would then provoke the national government, most likely military at this point, who would again respond with force, which would get video taped and spread, causing other people to become angry, etc.

Note this is what OWS tried and failed to do, partly because of the incredible amount of restraint by local authorities and also the American People saw through the OWS charade to who was behind it, also the provocation to local authority was far too egregious on the OWS side to provoke any sympathy from regular Americans.

Kythas

gdanaher wrote:Kythas, what industry do you work in?

I'm a computer software consultant. I travel to customer sites to determine their needs, implement our software, customize it according to customer needs, and train them how to use it.

One would think that people in the IT industry would mostly lean left, and some certainly do, at least the ones who prefer Apple over Microsoft. However, the vast, vast majority of my customers have all been center of right. I can think of only a handful in the last five years who have not been.

It brings to mind a statistic I once saw that said less than 20% of Americans self identify as liberal, and over 40% self identify as conservative, with the rest identifying as libertarian, independent, or other. I've always wondered since then how liberals have come to dominate political discourse in this country when they are such a distinct minority.

Kythas

I travel a lot for work, all over the US and Canada.

In the US, one thing I've noticed over the last 12-18 months talking to my customers is the absolute certainty that the United States is headed for either another revolution or a second civil war. No matter the political leanings of my customers (who, strangely, have been overwhelmingly conservative or libertarian, even in Canada) they all believe this. Almost all of my US customers state if either a revolution happens, or Texas secedes, they will all pack up and move to Texas, as this is seen as the best place to be in either event. I would say 95% of my customers have flat out told me if Texas secedes, they will drop everything and move here the next day.

In fact, on my flight home yesterday there was a couple from Pennsylvania who were coming to Dallas because they bought some land here to retire on. When I asked them why they bought land in Texas the husband said "The tax situation, no snow, and when the revolution comes Texas is where I want to be."

I believe this speaks volumes as to the confidence the average American has in our current Federal government.

As a side note, my Canadian customers - almost to a person - have told me that we Americans should fight socialized medicine with everything we have. Very few of them love their health care system.

Kythas

Winchster wrote:I hope and pray for secession or any other scenario in which our great state tells the Feds in DC to fly a kite.

236 years. It was a good run.

Kythas

VMI77 wrote: Also, aside from the income tax, the Constitution prohibits Congress from passing a tax on individuals that isn't apportioned by census. .

I was about to shoot this argument down by stating the 16th Amendment does away with apportionment for all taxes, but as I re-read it I saw that you're right. The 16th does only apply to income tax.

Thanks for pointing that out to me.

Kythas

Rex B wrote:Roberts vote is the most disappointing. I can only guess that he was rebelling at being thought of as a predictable conservative vote.

Roberts may have done Conservatism a favor, actually.

He got the court to reject the Commerce Clause argument, thereby letting Congress know there are limits to what they can try to achieve through that. This has been a big issue and a big slippery slope for the last century, and this ruling may have put a huge speed bump, if not a stop sign, in that road.

Roberts also basically told Obama "You can have your health care law, but you can't keep lying about it. A tax is a tax and you're a liar if you call it anything else." And now the American people know that Obama has just stuck them with the largest, most crippling tax ($1.2 trillion over the next 10 years, according to the CBO) in history.

Now, going into the election, Obama has his law. He has his tax hike. He must own it. He must defend it. He must live with it. And the opposition is now galvanized against him to a degree I've not seen before. And Obama must now be judged by the American people by his new taxes.

In the decision, Roberts said this, which I find telling:

“Members of this Court are vested with the authority to interpret the law; we possess neither the expertise nor the prerogative to make policy judgments. Those decisions are entrusted to our nation’s elected leaders, who can be thrown out of office if the people disagree with them. It is not our job to protect the people from the consequences of their political choices.”

Kythas

I suppose now the government can eliminate homelessness by mandating all US citizens purchase a house.

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