Thanks for explanation. My interaction with LEOs and the criminal law system has been few and far between, thankfully. Took a criminal law class in college as an elective once but that's about it. And i'm sure this has much to do with my lack of knowledge in this area. Good to see that there are people who do know these things and are willing to share them here.KBCraig wrote:EricS76 wrote:Eric, I'm not directing this at you personally, but... it's scary how brainwashed Americans have become, into thinking the police can search them "just because".Kalrog wrote:Good info, thanks. So in a routine traffic stop, the officer does not have the right to search solely on refusal to answer. But if he saw a box of ammo, or something gun-related (i.e. holster, the outline of what he precieves to be a gun covered by something), would he then have probable cause to search then?
A "box of ammo, or something gun-related" would not provide probable cause for a search. The outline of a gun would only provide cause, if possessing the gun would be illegal. (A box of ammo would be PC if the searchee was a felon, since felons can't have ammo, either.)
An officer who has stopped you for a traffic violation does not have carte blanch to search you or your vehicle. He has the right to question you about the circumstances which led to the stop. He has the right to engage you in conversation about any subject under the sun, but you're not obliged to repond. He has the right to act upon anything he sees or learns from you.
Absent probable cause, police only have the right to search with your permission. That's why they ask permission! If they have PC, your permission doesn't matter.
Bear in mind that a "vehicle inventory" subsequent to arrest is always possible. And in Texas, the driver can be arrested for every traffic offense except for two.
Kevin
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Return to “Traffic stop while traveling”
- Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:19 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Traffic stop while traveling
- Replies: 24
- Views: 5710
- Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:25 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Traffic stop while traveling
- Replies: 24
- Views: 5710
Good info, thanks. So in a routine traffic stop, the officer does not have the right to search solely on refusal to answer. But if he saw a box of ammo, or something gun-related (i.e. holster, the outline of what he precieves to be a gun covered by something), would he then have probable cause to search then?Kalrog wrote:That is correct - if that is the only evidence that the officer has. Refusal to answer a question or submit to a search is NOT probably cause for a search. If the officer has other PC for a search, (s)he could have been being polite or trying for a consent search insted of having to prove PC in court.
IANAL.
- Thu Sep 22, 2005 1:17 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Traffic stop while traveling
- Replies: 24
- Views: 5710
Not trying to be rude, just trying to understand.
So the officer says "do you have a gun in your vehicle" and you say " i refuse to answer the question" And he does not have the right to search your vehicle at this time? What if he said "do you have any drugs in your vehicle?" and you say "i refuse to answer the question" Then he does not have the right to search the vehicle then either? I understand that drugs are illegal, but so are guns in some circumstances. Just trying to understand the difference.
So the officer says "do you have a gun in your vehicle" and you say " i refuse to answer the question" And he does not have the right to search your vehicle at this time? What if he said "do you have any drugs in your vehicle?" and you say "i refuse to answer the question" Then he does not have the right to search the vehicle then either? I understand that drugs are illegal, but so are guns in some circumstances. Just trying to understand the difference.
- Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:34 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Traffic stop while traveling
- Replies: 24
- Views: 5710
Why would an officer not have a legal right to search the vehicle at this time?Renegade wrote:Yes & Yes.HighVelocity wrote:My question is, Is it LEGAL for the officer to ask if there is a gun in the car?
Can the driver decline to answer?
Would like to hear from a lawyer on this, but I think under Terry he could have you exit vehicle and pat you own for weapon, though he could not legally search vehicle.
- Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:30 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Traffic stop while traveling
- Replies: 24
- Views: 5710
Yes it is legal for an officer to ask you if there is a gun in the car. Why would it not be legal?
You can decline to answer, but that's going to throw up a flag to the officer. Why not just answer the question if you do have a gun in the car? If he's going to arrest you for that, then when you decline to answer the origional question he's most likely going to search the car and find it anyway. And probably in a worse mood than if you'd have answered the question in the first place.
You can decline to answer, but that's going to throw up a flag to the officer. Why not just answer the question if you do have a gun in the car? If he's going to arrest you for that, then when you decline to answer the origional question he's most likely going to search the car and find it anyway. And probably in a worse mood than if you'd have answered the question in the first place.