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thejtrain wrote:In truth I think we're definitely still in the "get her OK with the concept first" stage, and not very close to any actual shooting.

Looks like I was exactly right on that score. Had a very moment the other night. Had taken my G30 to a new (to me) nearby range (The Bullet Hole) after work, and went home and did the regular dinner-put-kids-to-bed-hang-out-with-wife routine. After she went to bed (I always stay up later, whether to read or play XBox/PC games or whatever) I took it out to give it its post-shoot cleaning. Had just gotten it broken down to its constituent parts (frame, slide, barrel, spring) when she came back downstairs to do something or other, and saw what I was doing. The conversation was very short and went something like this -
Wife: [paraphrasing, can't recall exactly this first comment] Well, that's a scary sight.
Me: What? I'm just cleaning it.
Wife: Yeah, it's fine if I never have to see it.
Me: stunned, incomprehending silence (AKA "pokered")
Wife: That's just kinda disturbing [yes, she used that exact word].
Me: Umm...
Wife: Goodnight. [goes back upstairs]

Next morning, all is normal, regular breakfast-for-the-kids-and-JT-goes-to-work routine, but we talk about going out to dinner tonight & BBQing tomorrow.

So, with how back-and-forth she has been on various occasions, I think "wait and see" is still the best policy. I know with my "way with words" (I'm much better on paper than in person) if I try convincing her it's more likely she'll end up against it than for it, so all I can hope is that she'll come around on her own without any scary external factors leading into it.

JT

MrsFosforos wrote:I don't know her circumstances, but I was assaulted and robbed in my front yard many years ago. At the time, I was so stricken with shame (and anger at myself) more so than fear = because I froze up and couldn't do anything to defend myself.

Afterwards, I wasn't as adverse to getting a gun as I was hesitant to consider it -because I was fearful I'd just freeze up again; and what good would having a gun be if I was paralyzed with fear and couldn't use it OR the bad guy would end up taking it away from me?

I did finally work through my fear of freezing up (again) by taking a self defense course. It taught me more about self and situational awareness than actual manuevers for defense - but it was the beginning of a turning point.

I'd guess she's rejecting guns per se, because of the fear she experienced with her mugging and I'd guess she might feel a sense of shame BECAUSE of the loss of control over her circumstances.

She may be inversely controlling her circumstances now by rejecting the use of a gun. Instead of seeing it as a means of protection, she might see it as a reminder of the fear and shame she experienced during the mugging. Not to say this would change her overall decision, but did she ever get counseling to work through the trauma of being mugged? It's devastating to have to admit that you were a "victim" - it's such a dirty word (to those who have been victimized).

Very interesting perspective - it could very well be something like that. She's indicated willingness to do a self-defense course as a starting point (the last one didn't work out 'cause of kid issues at the last minute), so hopefully we can start there and see something positive start to take shape.

MrsFosforos wrote:I get the idea the harder you push, the more she will resist - if nothing else, but for the principle expressed in this statement. I know you're concerned but don't paint her into a corner where she'll have to maintain a "stand" on principle.

She may be having more of an internal dialogue about this than she's shared with you. I did. Just be open to help her work through the discussions when she is ready and willing to talk it over with you.

As hard as it is, consider backing off and giving her room to be able to change her mind if that's what she decides is right for her.

I think you're 100% right on the money here, especially with that first paragraph. I have high hopes that the internal dialogue you suggest is really happening, and I'm hopeful that my carrying (and being completely normal) will also influence that internal dialogue in a good direction.

To others who've posted thoughts, they are much appreciated. In truth I think we're definitely still in the "get her OK with the concept first" stage, and not very close to any actual shooting. I do realize that in many cases just getting the lady to pull that trigger for the first few times can tend to be an epiphanous experience that leads to where we all hope our wives get to: equal enthusiasm with our own! But with what's going on (she's a brand-new small business owner and is still very stressed out over the startup - though I think those days are coming to a middle, perhaps even today, with the Grand Opening going down this morning) I don't think it's a very good time to introduce something new for her to ponder/contemplate/anticipate/worry about (that's the progression I'm used to seeing out of her).

I just got my plastic yesterday (woohoo!) so I carried for the first time today out to lunch with the family & another mom/kid combo. Felt good. And I'm looking forward to the time in a couple of weeks where it casually comes up in conversation that she didn't realize I'd been carrying for the last couple of weeks and gee I was still exactly normal the whole time. That will be a very opportune time to talk to her some more (assuming it goes down as planned), and I can perhaps introduce a new idea, "if a qualified & trained local friend offers to help out, would you be ok with trying it out while I walk the boys around Bass Pro for a bit?" We'll see!

CompVest wrote:I would be happy to meet and bring a .22 for her to shoot if you are in our area. If you are not, I believe that someone else on this forum will make the same offer. I am in the greater north Houston area. Feel free to PM me.

Thanks for the very kind offer CompVest (got your PM as well) - we're on the Northside of San Antonio so that's quite a haul! That would be an interesting thing to try - I can certainly imagine her taking her first few shots and loving it (or is that just my wish?) but one never knows for sure. One other logistical consideration is what to do with our boys while we're out plinking. Anyone in my area have any suggestions for an open, legal place to go shoot nearby?

Thanks,
JT

The Annoyed Man wrote:The lesson for me is that I have to do it on her terms, and I have to make her feel special in the process (which I actually enjoy doing, because she is special to me). But to this day, my wife is not a gun person. She's not against them. She just doesn't enjoy them. It's not her thing, and that is OK. They aren't for everybody. I just think it is a major victory that she has agreed to carry.

Very good points, and that's exactly the situation I hope to arrive at someday.

The Annoyed Man wrote:Sorry to be long winded, but have you tried the approach of just going out onto some open land where it's legal, and teaching her to plink with a little ol' .22? It may be a round about way to get past the guard she has up when it comes to guns.

Maybe I suggested a little more than I meant to when I said "Me=gunny". While I'm very passionate about RKBA, I'm not quite to the level of "enthusiast" that many here certainly are. I only own the one pistol, and I don't shoot it nearly as often as I'd like (full-time job, 2 kids, other hobbies, cost of ammo, etc. etc.). It'd be nice to get to that level someday, and Lord willing I will be when my boys come of age, but right now I don't have a .22 laying around to take her shooting with. I can certainly appreciate the attraction of the idea that a "Hey honey, let's just go plink a bit, see how it feels" will be a good first step, but it's just not in the cards right now. Maybe I can look around for a used .22 to pick up for not much $$$, which could open that scenario into the realm of the possible.

The good news is, we talked more today about her self-defense class on Saturday, and me registering for the CHL class in the next month or so, and we even talked in more detail than we ever did about her mugging experience, which took us to how she's thought about what would transpire if that were to happen when she's with the boys. That's where I was able to just make a heartfelt comment about my desire to see her be able to protect herself and our boys in the same fashion as I aspire to. She said, "maybe someday". I'm hoping that the self-defense class will get her thinking about these issues, and in taking more responsibility and proactive steps, she'll grow to understand just what kind of advantage a firearm would confer in that situation.

JT

stroo wrote:Bottom line, you can't make this decision for her and pushing too hard might be detrimental to your marriage.

You're absolutely right, and that's exactly why I've approached it so slowly & softly (if you could say that I've even "approached" it at all). In my own mind (though I'd never make this comparison out loud) it's not unlike a situation where a wife is very health-focused (organic foods, well-balanced diets, exercise, etc.) and proceeds to introduce those types of changes to her formerly junk-food-loving husband. The changes are for his own health, but he'd never initiate them on his own - but she still needs to proceed with care & caution to avoid the backlash. My wife learning how to shoot is for her own health, but she won't start on her own - but I still need to proceed with care & caution to avoid a backlash.

stroo wrote:As an alternative, you might want to suggest a self defense class that doesn't involve shooting. Several instructors and ranges offer such classes.

We have talked about that in the past, and she's very interested in that (which is a good first step, I agree). Uncannily enough, between the time of my post and stroo's, she sent me an email from a friend of hers with a link to a women-only self-defense seminar that she wants to go to on 2/16. Needless to say, I gave her the big and will gladly take my two boys to the park that morning!

seamusTX wrote:Have you tried asking her how she would like to approach shooting?

Not in those words - if I asked her that way it'd be akin to asking a vegetarian, "So what kind of steak would you like to start with?"
I think we're still in the "I'd like you to consider perhaps starting to approach shooting, would you consider it?" stage.

Sorry if I'm coming across as wishy-washy - I just want to approach this with the utmost care & discretion so as not to turn her off, and am hoping for some real-life "this is how I did it with my wife" anecdotes.

Thanks,
Jason

First, a little background, from my "Introduce yourself" post:

I never really had any desire to own a gun until I got married. I hadn't given much thought to my responsibility for my own safety, but as soon as I brought that lovely and wonderful woman into my house and life, I started considering that something might happen that would result in me failing to protect her. And that scares me more than my own life being taken. Got educated and purchased the aforementioned G30; never did apply for a CHL in our previous may-issue state but now that I'm here I'm working on it!

But that only eases one part of that fear: when we're at home together (and once I get my CHL, when we're together and I'm carrying). When we're apart and she's out and about, there's nothing I or my Glock can do, so I'd love to be able to know that she's also carrying and can defend herself. With our two boys (<5 mo. & <3 yr.) who are the apples of our eye in the picture that fear has been multiplied. A more detailed timeline follows.

Sometime in 1999 (college): girl gets mugged @ gunpoint, suffers no physical harm
2001-2002: boy meets girl, marries girl, worries about being able to protect her
2003: husband takes responsibility more seriously, wants gun; wife not thrilled but says, "Whatever"; husband buys handgun; wife less thrilled, "thought we were still talking about it"
2004-2007: through very sporadic conversations (she hates being pinned down to "talk about something") it becomes clear that she's sorta "scared" of guns (as a result of her experience, in which she had the opposite reaction that most here might expect to see), and really has no active interest in being relieved of that fear; however, on occasion she's dropped random comments here and there that she's understanding of my desire to have one (bump in the night: "take your gun, honey") and might not be completely averse to learning how to use one (mostly delivered sorta half-jokingly during an upbeat conversation).
2008: she doesn't completely agree with me on whether I'd need to carry/how often I might or should carry, but doesn't try to stop me from getting my CHL (same "whatever" answer from 2003 - which obviously makes me wary)

As you can probably tell, she's a very independent & unique person (her views are her own and she doesn't particularly care for 1) discussing or defending them, or 2) being told what she should or shouldn't feel) and is very much of the "what's right for you is right for you and I won't try to change it, as long as you realize that what's right for you may not be right for me and don't try to change that." I certainly don't want to force her to do something she doesn't want to do, but I also want to be sure she's safe when I'm not around (just before Christmas there were daylight muggings/purse-snatchings of lone women in the parking lots of the very upscale mall in North San Antonio).

So while I realize that the process that a person goes through from non-gunny to gunny is different for everybody, I'm still holding out hope that there will be someone here who can offer that one insight that will just "click" and be the right avenue to approach my much-better half. Step one will be getting her to be receptive to even thinking about touching a gun herself. Troy (Shootstir) offered some advice:

I started my wife on a small, .22caliber pump-action rifle. No recoil, and the noise was mitigated by the distance to the muzzle. Earplugs are a must! If a woman perceives pain in the process- she is likely to always associate pain with the process. (Same for a young adult under your tutelage.) After your wife gains familiarity with the small rifle, introduce a suitable small-frame revolver- again with .22 caliber, although a .25 might also work. (Depends on your budget)

I hope your wife takes to firearms as easily as mine did. She really enjoys our time together. Just remember to take it slow, make it interesting, and be sure she has proper eye and ear protection. That last, will seal the deal in most instances. Good luck and good shooting! -Troy

I hope so too, and that's very good advice, but to be honest, we're nowhere near trying to select what kind of gun to start her on. More like: trying to convince her to take a gun safety class like the one I took, where under a trained instructor's watchful eye (I've read all about how I should not be the one to train her, and it's very good advice) she can learn the basics (safety & operation) and try two or three different guns in the span of 30-60 minutes.

So, wow, if you can follow that God-awful rambling mess, I'd love to hear some thoughts from the experienced folks here!

Thanks,
Jason