Liberty wrote:frankie_the_yankee wrote:Lucky45 wrote: Just for discussion, I think part of your defense it that these stores have PLENTY monitored surveillance cameras in the building and since NOBODY saw your stuff items in your clothing, and you stopped at the cash register and your items were scanned by an employee, then a reasonable person would think it was a false alarm from item not getting demagnetized by cashier. So, stores need to put a perimeter collar on their employees and taze them when they make this error.
Now if someone try to stroll outside the building with items and bypass the register, then I agree then there is reasonable grounds.
Nice try, but that would never fly. Given a busy store and dozens of cameras, it's easy to see how someone could steal something and have it missed by the people monitoring the cameras.
Stephan has it exactly right.
If the alarm goes off and a store employee approaches you -
cooperate.
We're the good guys, remember? We should act accordingly.
If someone physically asaults me in a parking lot. I will respond as if I've been assaulted. I get aproached all the time in parking lots by strangers. I tell them loudly and firmly "NO!" and warn them not to aproach. If someone is wearing an apron doesn't make them not a carjacker or other type of criminal.
As Stephen posted, an alarm going off is likely to be considered by most jurors as a basis for a reasonable belief that a theft was in progress. If a store employee approaches you and you refuse to cooperate, then they can (but probably won't) use reasonable force to take you back into the store. This is not an assault; it's a lawful use of reasonable force under the Code. If you hit them, you have committed an assault. If the fight escalates and someone really gets hurt, or you pull your pistol, you will have a major problem! Think about how 12 strangers are going to view your actions when all of this could have been avoided by showing the employee your receipt. You're going to come across as a jerk and the jury is going to show you how they feel about you in the only way than can -- the verdict.
Comments have been made about rampant false alarms. I have walked out of stores thousands of times in my life and I can recall a false alarm on a security device only about 3 ro 4 times. If a store manager testifies in your trial (civil or criminal) that false alarms make up a very small percentage of the times they go off, then you are probably going to lose. Now, if the store does have a track record of "excessive" false alarms, then a jury could also decide that the triggering of an alarm does not constitute reasonable belief that a theft is in progress. Unfortunately, as you are walking out the door of the store, you aren't going to know what the statistics are for that store, so you can't use that as basis for your action. (Your attorney will find that out for you, long after you wished you had never let it get that far.)
I don't like some of the security procedures stores use either, especially in the few times the alarms went off when I was leaving. But shoplifting is a multi-billion dollar problem annually and we all pay for the merchandise others steal. If I have to infrequently show a clerk a receipt, I'll admit I'm going to be miffed, but why turn it into a bigger problem? For those who will say it's a matter of losing our rights, no it is not! The stores have a right prevent theft, as long as they follow the dictates of the law. If they cross the line in doing so, then call me and we'll both make some money.
Chas.
