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Excaliber wrote:

carlson1 wrote:

WildBill wrote:I realize I am late to this post, but the caliber argument for me hasn't been much of a decision for me.
I am not sure exactly why, but I have never been able to shoot a .45 ACP as accurately as I would like.
That is why I have carried .38 Spec +P and 9 mm.

Truth is we all have something we can't shoot as well. I shoot the .356 Sig fine, but not the .40. I like .45 and revolvers.

I don't direct this at anyone because I was this way when I left LE for years. I thought I had to carry two guns and back up mags for both and a revolver on my ankle to go to Kroger's and get milk. I realize bad things can happen anywhere, but I finally "matured" out some I guess because I try real hard not to go to places I need to take my gun safe to.

That pretty much describes exactly how I "evolved" and arrived at my current carry practices too.

Me too. It must be an old COP thing.

Chas.

I have a digital food scale to use for weighing guns and related gear. Here are some weights that you may (or may not) find interesting. All weights are in ounces for a fully loaded handgun.

• Gov't Model 1911 .45ACP (8rd mag. +1): 45.39 oz.
  Stainless Commander 1911 .45ACP (8rd mag. +1): 43.28 oz.
  Light weight Commander 1911 .45ACP (8rd mag. +1): 36.79 oz
  Officer's Model 1911 (all steel) .45ACP (7rd mag. +1): 39.43 oz.
  Kimber Untra Carry 1911 (3" barrel) .45ACP (7rd mag. +1) 30.33 oz.
  CZ75 Compact PCR (aluminum frame) 9mm (14rd mag. +1): 33.72 oz.
  
  8rd .45ACP mag with 230 gr. JHP: 8.28oz.

Just to show how chasing the lighter weight gun can exalt form over substance, the weight difference between a Gov't (5") model and a lightweight Commander is just slightly over the weight of a loaded 8rd mag.

Chas.

It's obvious that my post, about my decision made for my safety, has been received poorly by some folks who carry a 9mm. As I said in the last sentence in the first post, "I'm not trying to start a never-ending "light and fast v. big and slow" argument that no one can win. I'm just giving the basis for my decision to return to a .45ACP as an EDC handgun. I'm also not trying to get anyone else to follow in my shoes. I'm doing what's best for me, not advocating a one-size-fits-all approach. " Carry what you want to carry and I'll do likewise.

Chas.

G26ster wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote: Handguns for the military are backup weapons, but us they are not only primary weapons, but likely the only weapons we will have if attacked.

Chas.

Then times have changed in the military Charles. In my infantry days, as mechanized infantry mortar squad leader my only issued weapon, and the only one I had if attacked, was a 1911.

Really? You don't understand what I was getting at?

Chas.

Soap wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Soap wrote:You also do want to DUCK. This SWAT says don't duck?

I deleted my response to this most arrogant of responses, but I must comment on the above statement. No, you don't want to duck and if that's your philosophy, then leave your gun at home and carry a sword. It's obvious I (and Mark) was talking about the natural but dangerous tendency to duck one's head while firing blindly. Neither Mark nor I are saying not to use cover/concealment when it's available. Ducking while you are in the open and leaving your body open doesn't make you safer, but firing while doing so endangers others.

Carry what you will, I said I wasn't trying to get anyone to change their mind.

Chas.

When I said "Duck" I meant move. You don't want to stand still unless you're wearing armor.

Let's just chalk it up to a miscommunication on both of our parts. My statement in the original post was, Don't duck, run and spray hoping not only to get one or two rounds out of 15 not only on target, but in a location that will stop the threat from shooting at you." This is a response seen far too often in shootings. I will say that, while I agree with the "get off the X" approach, I do so only while drawing my gun, unless I have reachable cover/concealment in which case I will move quickly to cover. Trying to deliver accurate fire while moving is a myth. If cover/concealment is available, get to it, then fire. Shooting on the move is nothing more than suppressive fire which is fine on a battle field, but not in civilian settings. That's a factor in many LEO misses.

The two IDPA rules that bother me the most are 1) a limited number of non-threat targets in a scenario; and 2) allowing or requiring shooting on the move. Most shooters are moving so slow one can barely discern movement. They do this because moving quickly to cover will result in almost 100% misses.

Chas.

G26ster wrote:Marine Raiders going the other way:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articl ... paign=1016

Handguns for the military are backup weapons, but us they are not only primary weapons, but likely the only weapons we will have if attacked.

Chas.

Article wrote:One of the reasons the Marine Corps gave for abandoning the M45A1 was there are times when Marine operators require a concealable handgun. And while the M45A1 CQB is an excellent fighting pistol in what used to be America's favorite caliber, it is not a gun designed for concealment. Another reason given for the Raider shift away from .45 was logistics—meaning that having two sidearm chamberings with in the same unit was not a good idea. That makes sense for regular military units, but has not hampered elite operators in the past.

Soap wrote:You also do want to DUCK. This SWAT says don't duck?

I deleted my response to this most arrogant of responses, but I must comment on the above statement. No, you don't want to duck and if that's your philosophy, then leave your gun at home and carry a sword. It's obvious I (and Mark) was talking about the natural but dangerous tendency to duck one's head while firing blindly. Neither Mark nor I are saying not to use cover/concealment when it's available. Ducking while you are in the open and leaving your body open doesn't make you safer, but firing while doing so endangers others.

Carry what you will, I said I wasn't trying to get anyone to change their mind.

Chas.

WhoWouldGuess wrote:Is that the 14-45 model? I wish they still manufactured that!

If you are talking about my Para Ordnance, it is a Para frame with a Caspian slide, Ed Brown internals and a Wilson barrel. When I had it built, Para didn't make guns, only frames. I had it built to use is USPSA matches. This is back when we thought a .45ACP made enough gas for a comp to function. Later, I had a new barrel and slide fitted to use as a limited gun.

Chas.

Well, perhaps I should have said the "prodigal contemplates going back home." Maybe "prodigal heads in the direction of home."

I bought a CZ75 Compact PCR (9mm) a few months ago and installed the Cajun Gun Works Pro Kit. I love the gun! It has been 100% reliable and I shoot it well, very well in fact. It has a 14 rd mag. and I carry one extra mag. With the Cajun Gun Works Pro Kit, it's a different gun from the factory original which was itself a very good gun. I've been carrying it for about 3 or 4 months and I have no complaints, other than severe holster wear on a part of the frame.

Now, I'm probably going back to a 1911 45ACP as my EDC. The video I posted dealing with "shoot until the threat is over" got me to thinking about it. A conversation today with my buddy who was a HPD SWAT instructor and team leader for 26 years pretty much finalized my decision. I still believe that the ballistics of modern self-defense ammo shows little to no difference between .45ACP and 9mm. My SWAT buddy confirmed this based upon attending numerous autopsies to see how the bullets they are using perform. However, and this is a big however, he also said that anecdotal information obtained from officers involved in shootings, as well as his own gun fights, show that a subject does "go down" faster when hit with bigger bullets (a/k/a .45ACP).

One thing stood out in the video I posted and in countless others I have seen. The attacker very rarely goes down quickly when shot with a handgun. In fact, most run and some even run and return fire after being hit. Candidly, this wasn't news to me; I've known this for years. However, seeing it unfold live drives the message home much better than merely the spoken word or reading reports. I don't care about the finer points of tissue damage, wound tracks and autopsy reports. I want to stop a violent attacker from killing me or other innocent people. I don't care if an ME can no longer tell what caliber round killed someone based upon tissue damage in the wound channel and must wait until he/she finds the bullet. I do care about Mark's statement that bad guys go down faster when hit with larger rounds. That information came from real gun fights, real gun fighters and real results.

The reason I decided to go with a CZ Compact for EDC was greater mag capacity (14 rds) in view of the greatly increased threat of multiple attackers. I could have done the same with something like an STI 2011 in .45ACP, but it would have felt like a boat anchor on my hip. (I have an all steel Government Para Ordnance 45ACP that carries 15 rounds and weighs 51.32 oz.) So the only practical way to get that greater capacity was to go with a 9mm.

I felt my decision was somewhat bolstered by much of the recent reporting about various law enforcement agencies switching to a 9mm from .40S&W or .357SIG. The theory is that LEO hit percentages hover in the low to mid 20%, so it's better for officers to have more rounds. While that argument makes sense, it institutionalizes the "spray and pray" approach to gun fighting. I've never been on that team and I'm not joining it now! When talking to my SWAT buddy about capacity v. multiple attacker scenarios he smiled and said "do what I do. Carry extra mags. [.45ACP] and don't miss." He wasn't joking; don't miss. That means stand and deliver accurate fire. Don't duck, run and spray hoping not only to get one or two rounds out of 15 not only on target, but in a location that will stop the threat from shooting at you. How do you do that? You practice using realistic scenarios.

I'm not trying to start a never-ending "light and fast v. big and slow" argument that no one can win. I'm just giving the basis for my decision to return to a .45ACP as an EDC handgun. I'm also not trying to get anyone else to follow in my shoes. I'm doing what's best for me, not advocating a one-size-fits-all approach.

Chas.