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getsome wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote: Open-carry bills have not been filed "every session for the last 10 years." Only two bills have been filed (2011 and 2013) and neither were NRA bills. NRA and TSRA testified in favor of HB700 in 2013, but that was the extent of our support. It wasn't our bill and we don't do a full court press on anything that isn't our bill. (There's a lot more to our political full-court-press than merely testifying in favor of a bill.) Obviously you are not aware of the efforts to pass open-carry in Texas. The NRA and TSRA are the only organizations that can get it passed and we may not be able to do so if the in-your-face tactics continue. If you truly want open-carry to pass, then leave the rifle at home when you go to the store.
A couple things don't make sense here:

1. Only two bills have been filed and neither were NRA bills.
2. NRA/TSRA testified in favor of HB700, but that was the extent of the support.

then the following statement:

Obviously you are not aware of the efforts to pass open-carry in Texas. The NRA and TSRA are the only organizations that can get it passed.

If the NRA and TSRA aren't filing bills, have testified only on HB700, then what are the other efforts they are making if they are truly the only organizations that can get it passed?

I have already posted some of these efforts, others I have stated cannot be made public.

Getsome wrote: . . . but I'd think if the NRA/TSRA were serious about getting it passed (permit or no permit), shouldn't they be putting forth bills each and every legislative session?

We haven't been "serious" about passing open-carry bills in 2011 and 2013, again for reasons I've already posted several times. 2015 will be the first session for us to introduce an open-carry bill.

Getsome wrote:When that happens, people will do what they believe needs to be done to move forward. I think that's what is happening in this case.

You may be right, but even a blind man can see that their efforts are not helping the effort to pass open-carry. Also, there can be no doubt that the NRA and TSRA have now put open-carry on our legislative agendas, so why continue to pursue failed tactics?

Chas.

adric22 wrote:Yes, I am one of those people that carry my rifle with me when I go grocery shopping. If that clears things up. So what have I seen in my experiences so far? I've seen a lot of positive changes from my perspective. When we started this a year ago we were getting hassled by police regularly. Many of us were arrested. We were a small group of people and if we wanted to have a demonstration, we'd drive long distances just to get a group of 20 people together to do this.

How have things changed? Well, for starters, every time we go out we gain new members. Our numbers grow stonger exponentially. Now we have demonstrations 2 or 3 times per week and we are doing it in our local cities now. There is probably a demonstration going on somewhere in Texas at just about any time, probably as you are reading this. There are enough members that each city has their own groups and we no longer have to drive long distances. Open Carry Texas alone has over 10,000 members now. Here in Tarrant County (Ft.Worth area) we have over 1,200 members alone. We're in the news almost every week for something or another. Some of the publicity is bad, but most of it is either good or neutral. And now the police leave us alone. Rarely do they approach us. The 911 operators have been trained to explain open carry to people. And now people stop and talk to us all of the time. We're able to explain the laws and what it is that we are wanting to get changed. People are talking.

We have now made open carry a common sight. And we have made it a right that is capable of being exercised. And don't tell me the NRA is working to bring us open carry of handguns. We've seen several NRA-backed open carry bills go through the Texas legislature each and every session for the last 10 years. It always dies without ever even getting a vote. This time will be different. We've made enough media splash that the bill will come up for a vote this time. It will get passed. And the reason it will get passed is because of our hard work. One of the things we've told the public over and over when they talk to us is that if they want to stop seeing us carry rifles around, help get open carry passed for handguns. That is the best way to stop it. We won't bother to carry our rifles around anymore once we can carry our handguns.

I guess we'll have to disagree on your claims of positive impact by you and other carrying rifles into grocery stores. Not one single positive news report has been seen in the Houston broadcast area, not one. There have been several negative TV new reports, including some man-on-the-street interviews with people who don't like open-carry one bit.

Legislators who are or want to be supportive of open-carry are asking that people stop such tactics because of the negative backlash coming from their constituents. Even if you are getting some positive feedback from people on the street or in stores, they are very few in comparison to those complaining and they don't get to vote on bills in the legislature.

Open-carry bills have not been filed "every session for the last 10 years." Only two bills have been filed (2011 and 2013) and neither were NRA bills. NRA and TSRA testified in favor of HB700 in 2013, but that was the extent of our support. It wasn't our bill and we don't do a full court press on anything that isn't our bill. (There's a lot more to our political full-court-press than merely testifying in favor of a bill.) Obviously you are not aware of the efforts to pass open-carry in Texas. The NRA and TSRA are the only organizations that can get it passed and we may not be able to do so if the in-your-face tactics continue. If you truly want open-carry to pass, then leave the rifle at home when you go to the store.

Chas.

Welcome to the Forum.

What do you mean by "I'm one of those open-carry people?" There are a lot of open-carry supporters on the Forum, so I'm not sure if you mean you walk into private property with a long gun or black powder handgun.

Open-carry demonstrations are not "going to make things worse," they already have made things worse. NRA and TSRA have been working to build support for open-carry since the end of the 2013 Texas Legislative Session. The most common problem we hear is that constituents who are upset about someone walking into Home Depot with an AR-15 over their shoulder are calling and asking their elected representatives to "do something to stop this."

No offense, but your cookie analogy is terrible. Cookies don't scare anyone, but walking into stores with a rifle or black power handgun does scare a significant percentage of people.

The legislative backlash against open-carry of rifles is not theoretical, it has already happened. The New Black Panthers marched on the George R. Brown Convention Center in Houston during the Republican National Convention. The next legislative session saw the very strong Texas preemption law watered down, but thankfully not tremendously so. Cities were given the authority to prohibit the carrying of firearms by everyone other than CHLs at political rallies, parades and city parks. There was a faction that fought hard to make the prohibition on carrying firearms (including long guns) statewide, except for CHLs. We were able to kill that effort.

Anyone who wants to see open-carry pass needs to realize that carrying long guns and black powder handguns into public places is not aiding that effort. This isn't speculation or a personal opinion, it's a fact evidenced by feedback from legislators and staff.

Chas.

adric22 wrote:I'm one of those open-carry people. I'm tired of people saying we're going to make things worse. Open carry of rifles and black powder is either legal or it isn't. If a mom has a jar of cookies and tells her child "Technically, you can eat theses cookies. But if you decide to eat one, then I'm going to take the cookies away." Its kind of the same with these laws. If we lose a right by exercising that right then all we will have accomplished is to show we never really had the right to begin with, in which case nothing has really changed other than clarification of the law. So in the worst case scenario, nothing changes at all for CHL carriers. In the best case scenario, we win more rights. What is there to lose?

Dragonfighter wrote:
Charles Cotton wrote:More importantly, it's proof that in-your-face tactics rarely if ever have a positive outcome. In this instance, the ordinance will be meaningless, but in other situations it may create an issue we have to fight in court or in the legislature. Anyone who truly wants to see open-carry pass needs to stop these destructive tactics and let the NRA and TSRA handle this issue. We can pass this legislation by calming fears, not by creating fear.
I agree. But my question, especially in light of the comments about their leadership (or more accurately, lack of leadership) is, how do we get the message to them in a way that makes sense to them? How can we help them organize so that they will quit being jerks? I am serious here.

I don't know and I'm not sure it's possible. There is a variety of people using similar tactics and I suspect for various reasons. Some people truly believe they are educating the public (I disagree), some think they are desensitizing the public to the carrying firearms openly (I disagree) and some do it simply to "exercise their constitutional right." I don't know of an approach that would reach all of these people. We also have to consider the possibility that there is a faction that does not want the NRA or TSRA to accomplish what they could not, so they keep up their tactics in order to claim they passed open-carry. There is at least some evidence of this in the form of false claims that the NRA and TSRA have been forced to take up the open-carry issue.

As I've noted several times, organized open-carry demonstrations on public property with prior notice to law enforcement are not as harmful as the lone wolfs like the man in Arlington, or even a group that goes onto private property. (Even the organized demonstrations would be better off carrying signs, but no demonstrations are necessary or helpful at this juncture.)

Chas.

According to the video report, the only thing the proposed ordinance will do is make it unlawful to carry a firearm (or replica) to a city counsel meeting. As Keith noted, they have the authority to do this, but they will still have to comply with state law and post a 30.06 sign.

More importantly, it's proof that in-your-face tactics rarely if ever have a positive outcome. In this instance, the ordinance will be meaningless, but in other situations it may create an issue we have to fight in court or in the legislature. Anyone who truly wants to see open-carry pass needs to stop these destructive tactics and let the NRA and TSRA handle this issue. We can pass this legislation by calming fears, not by creating fear.

Some have posted that the NRA/TSRA have been dragged kicking and screaming into this fight. Such comments show an utter lack of understanding of how we work as well as delusions of grandeur on the part of those who believe they can scare people into supporting their position. For at least four years now I have stated that we build and promote our agenda over multiple years, much of it behind the scenes, and that we had commitments that had to be addressed before other high-profile, emotionally-charged issues could be added to our legislative agenda. We have done much ground work since the end of the 2013 Texas Legislative Session to build support for licensed open-carry. Some will complain that we don't publicize our efforts, but we cannot do so without harming our overall effectiveness. To all bomb-throwing types, consider your posts well; we will not tolerate your false allegations and spiteful attacks for even a moment.

Chas.

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