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by Charles L. Cotton
Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:50 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: LEO Threads
Replies: 6
Views: 1891

Re: LEO Threads

JSThane wrote:As an active LEO, I appreciate this. On the one hand, the "hair trigger" to automatically convict the cops in the court of opinion whenever a situation arises is highly aggravating and angering. While there are bad apples out there, drawn to the badge only by the desire to exercise control over others, or jaded to the point of assuming everyone's a criminal through constant interactions with real criminals, we're not all like that. In fact, most of us aren't. Guilty until proven innocent attitudes towards cops only serve to heighten mistrust of the police and to strengthen and justify certain cops' attitudes of scorn and disdain for the general populace.
On the other hand, the instinctive support of the cops in whatever situation is also problematic, as I -know- there are bad apples out there. A couple of the local LEO departments and certain specific officers were recently the subject of a fairly lengthy thread here, and from what I know of the situation (and the officers in particular), the condemnation was rightly deserved. Automatic support for us no matter the case is as harmful to us and the public at large as universal suspicion and approbation. As we ARE in the public eye, charged with enforcing the law, giving cops an automatic pass until absolutely proven otherwise empowers and emboldens those bad actors, who then feel they can get away with all kinds of violations of law and rights.
Mixing the two, automatic condemnation with reflexive support, just makes the whole thing even worse. Any iffy situation will generate both. The condemnation alienates cops from the public, and the support tends to justify errors and violations as "for the greater good" because "the public supports it," and even further isolates the cops from reality, which usually lies somewhere in between.

We are, like any other citizen, entitled to a presumption of innocence until proof of guilt is established. By no means does that say that questions should not be raised, or that apparent impropriety should not be called out. What it does mean is that improprieties should be handled on a case-by-case basis as far as individual incidents are concerned. If there is a policy or law that facilitates impropriety, that should be brought to attention publicly, but please, don't condemn the individual officers for it; use the righteous indignation generated as impetus to change the law or policy, instead of slamming the officers, or declaring the whole authority under the law invalid because of one area of violations under color of law.

I can certainly say for myself, as an LEO, that I would greatly appreciate having fewer laws to remember, fewer crimes to enforce, and more freedoms for everyone where we simply don't have to get involved. Repealing most of the vast multitude of laws out there, most of which are utterly pointless and unjustifiable (see malum prohibim vs malum se - I hope I spelled those right), will make life easier on everyone, and help restore the faith and trust that has been lost on both sides of the LEO-public equation.
Thanks for an excellent post! I especially agree with the last paragraph, but sadly we seem to be moving in the opposite direction.

Chas.
by Charles L. Cotton
Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:14 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: LEO Threads
Replies: 6
Views: 1891

LEO Threads

I previously posted in a LEO thread responding to another Member's comment about the growing number of LEO threads. I have noticed the increase also, but more importantly we are seeing legitimate threads turning once again into a combination of global COP-bashing and "COPS are always right" posts. I'm sick of both of those categories and it was tempting to change the rules. However, that's hardly fair to those who start these legitimate threads and those who post on such threads. Very often incidents involving LEO's have great educational value, so we are not going to stop or limit such threads.

At this point this is just a request, but it can become a policy in short order if necessary. If you feel compelled to always assume the LEO is wrong and/or feel the need to post a generalized anti-COP post -- don't! Your post will be summarily deleted and if we have to do it too many times, you'll be gone. If you simply must exhibit that attitude, do it elsewhere. In all candor, the Moderators know full well who the frequent offenders are and on this issue, we're going to have a short fuse.

Here's another request; those of you who simply cannot allow yourselves to acknowledge the fact that not every action taken by a LEO is lawful, justified, or moral, don't feel compelled to jump to the defense of LEO made the subject of a thread. More often than not, such posts are condescending and antagonistic and they will no more be tolerated than those who post blatant COP-bashing posts.

Let's face it, emotions frequently run high in various LEO threads and some people simply cannot stay objective. That's not a condemnation of anyone, it's merely recognizing reality. There are some threads I will not read because I know I'll be tempted to post something that may or may not violate our rules, but would certainly violate the spirit of those rules. I've already made a couple of posts in the LEO threads I wish I could retract, not because of the content or opinions expressed, but the way I expressed those opinions.

LEO threads have a high degree of educational value when they are rational, respectful and objective and they will remain a part of the Forum. Everyone needs to decide for themselves whether they are an appropriate topic for them to read and follow.

To anyone I may have offended with my comments in the LEO threads, I sincerely apologize for the way my comments were delivered.
Chas.

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