TexasCHLforum.com

1TallTXn wrote:Just a thought, would there be a different sign then the 30.06 for no open carry?

Could the law be written such that there is no open carry if sign XX.XX is posted? but CCW is still allowed unless the 30.06 is posted.

so make the signs exclusive of each other.

Just a thought

If open carry were made legal in Texas, I don't think the Legislature would be willing to set requirements for a third trespass sign, and require a property owner to post two of the three, if they want to keep all CHL's out, regardless whether they were carrying openly or concealed. (We currently have 30.05 and 30.06.) The 30.06 sign would apply to all carrying by CHL's.

Regards,
Chas.

Jaybirds1210:
Yes, you can carry openly on your own property. Just don't point it at anyone! Seriously, Penal Code §46.02 is the general prohibition on carrying handguns (and other things) on your person. Penal Code §46.15(b)(2) states that the general prohibition found in 46.02 does not apply when you are on your own property. Whether the handgun is carried openly or concealed is irrelevant.

For CHL holders, it is clear that the handgun has to be concealed, when you are not on your own property. (See Penal Code §46.035(a)) I have heard at least one LEO contend that a CHL must conceal his/her handgun even on their own property, as 46.035(a) does not make a distinction as to the owner of the property. I strongly disagree, as 46.035(a) expressly states: A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

If you are carrying a handgun on your own property, then you are not carrying “under the authority of the CHL statute. Rather, you are carrying pursuant to §46.15(b)(2).

So, yes you can legally carry your 1911 openly in your front yard. It may not be the wisest thing you could do, especially if you don’t like to be the center of attention!

Regards,
Chas.

tomneal wrote:Over the years, I have had several conversations with a very pro-CHL lawyer. The reason he gave for keeping the Texas CHL as a Concealed Carry License, was that Open carry would motivate the anti-guners.

Tom is being kind and discrete. I’m the guy he’s talking about. I oppose open carry for one reason only and it’s a political one. The battle to pass the CHL statute in 1995 was bitterly fought. Passage of amendments to improve the statute was easier to accomplish, as CHL rapidly became a non-issue - exactly what we want!

My concern with open carry is that many anti-gunners and people who do not care one way or the other will see guns carried in restaurants, stores, theaters, etc. and will put great pressure on businesses to post 30.06 signs prohibiting handguns. If the local Home Depot store manager is faced with a bunch of complaints about customers with guns, he is going to do what he believes is in the best interest of his store to preserve sales and his job. If that means posting a 30.06 sign, then he’ll do it. I also fear it would result in great pressume on the Legislature to expand the locations that are "off limits" to CHL's, although I do not believe the CHL statute would be repealed entirely. Florida tried open carry, but only for one year. I do not know why open carry was repealed, but I suspect it was for the reasons I have stated, at least in part.

We have roughly 250,000 CHL holders in Texas, out of a population of 18 million to 20 million. The Alamo defenders had better odds! We don’t need to stir up opposition that does not currently exist. (I don’t want to have to fight for the same ground twice. )

If Texas had a history of legal open carry and open carry had actually been practiced, then I believe we would face an entirely different situation. However, based upon our history, I think there is a great deal to be said for the “out-of-sight-out-of-mind� aspect of concealed carry.

Regards,
Chas.

There seem to be a good number of CHL Instructors that are teaching that any exposure of the handgun is a violation. I sometimes wonder of DPS is teaching this in their Instructor classes.

As txinvestigator pointed out in quoting the Penal Code, only intentionally failing to conceal is a violation. The bill originally had the standard mens rea (mental state) requirement of "intentionally, knowingly or recklessly" but testimony in both the House and Senate hearings showed that this could result in prosecution if the wind blew your coat up, or you reached to the top shelf in a grocery store. A good number of questions were asked, a discussion ensued and the "knowingly or recklessly" language was removed. (The DA's Association even commented that this was a real coup.) These hearings are recorded and become part of the legislative history of a bill.

I agree it's important that we keep our sidearms concealed. If not, someone may well make a "man with a gun" call to the police and we may find ourselves having to explain to a LEO that it was an accident. Since virtually all penal code sections have the common "intentionally, knowingly or recklessly" language, there is a very good chance the responding officer will not be familiar with the unusually narrow provisions of 46.035(a). (Remember guys, we are far more familiar with the CHL statute and related Penal Code provisions than almost anyone who doesn’t follow boards like TexasCHLforum. )

Another thing to remember is don’t create a problem for yourself, if you do inadvertently expose (or print) your handgun by making an incriminating statement. If you say something to the responding officer like “yeah, I knew this shirt was too tight to conceal this thing� then you’ve taken a giant step into the gray area between “intentional� and “knowing� conduct. You may still win, but you'll be spending some money with one of my colleagues!

The bottom line: Carry your gun, make reasonable and responsible efforts to conceal it properly and don’t worry about it. If you inadvertently expose or print the gun, you’ll be fine.

Regards,
Chas.