TexasCHLforum.com

I’m also amazed that no instructor students made a challenge to that attitude. Why didn’t someone ask “So the intent of the legislature means nothing to you?”

I know he has weighed in once, but I’d like to know what Charles L. Cotton thinks of this!

Vol Texan wrote:

twomillenium wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

Keith B wrote:
It will not do any good. DPS tells instructors that any 'no guns' sign is notification, legal or not, so they will not take action on an instructor teaching this.

If this is accurate, it's very disappointing. It's even worse than an individual officer making up his own laws and interpretations. It needs to be addressed.

I do not know who told Keith B this, but I have not experienced any such notification from the DPS.

I just finished up the New LTC Instructor course today. I can tell you first hand that what Keith said is exactly what we were told - and this was reinforced by multiple instructors.

They told us in no uncertain terms that (a) gunbuster signs, (b) “No Guns” signs, and (c) a sign containing only the term “30.06” (with no other accompanying verbiage) all demonstrate the property owner’s intent, so therefore all have the force of law.

I am not disputing the truth of what you’re saying, but I cannot accept that DPS is getting away with this! When is the legislature and/or the AG going to make it plain to them that the letter of the law is the only thing that has force of law, and not these goofy interpretations?

Mike S wrote:

JustSomeOldGuy wrote:I'm splitting hairs here, but
1) if I have an LTC, and
2) there is no valid 06/07 up that tells me the "no guns" sentiment applies to LTC's as well as the common horde
then IF they somehow figure out I'm carrying and ask me to leave and I DON'T, wouldn't I be arrested under 30.05 rather than .06/.07/UCW?

If you're asked to leave and DON'T (in your example I assume CC for a person with an LTC), then I think .06 would be the appropriate charge (a Class A Misdemeanor since oral notice was given & refused to leave, even if no .06 signage, no gun buster, etc);

.07 would be for OC using the same example, with or without .07 signage but having received oral notice to depart & refusing;

.05 would be more appropriate for someone who doesn't have a firearm on them, but refused to leave when asked.

UCW (what it sounds like the OP's instructor said he would arrest under) would be for anyone carrying in public WITHOUT an LTC, regardless of signage anyway (of course with the exceptions of the MPA, private property, property under your control, etc)

Except that the OP’s example stated that his instructor, acting in his capacity as LEO, would make an arrest if called by the proprietor of an establishement posted with a gun buster sign. He did NOT include whether or not the proprietor had given the customer notice.....only that the proprietor called the cops. In that event, on its own, the gun buster sign does NOT constitute proper notice in any way shape or form. Now, I do OC from time to time, but this is also a good case for CC. What the proprietor can’t see, he can’t get his feathers ruffled over. It is incumbent on the proprietor - by law - to post the proper signage if he wants to bar someone from carrying into his establishment. It’s not MY fault if he’s too ignorant to do that. And if I’m CC’ing, how’s he even going to know?

Your instructor is an idiot on a power trip. As Charles pointed out, the flip side of “you can beat the rap, but not the ride” is “I broke no laws, you KNEW I broke no laws when you put me in cuffs and took me downtown. Now I’m going to own your house and car.”

I don’t care how senior he is, I hope he is not involved in the training of new officers.