I agree that misses are a greater concern than pass-throughs, and not missing is the best possible outcome. But I would hardly characterize the +P JHP "duty" loads that many of us carry as "anemic". I have quite a bit of experience treating gunshot patients, and most of the pass-throughs I saw were from "anemic" FMJ loads, while fairly devastating hollowpoint loads didn't pass through. In fact, the only hollowpoint load I ever saw pass through a torso was a .41 magnum which entered the anterior chest and existed through the left kidney. Most people would not carry a magnum caliber beginning in "4". It's just "too much gun" for most self-defense social work - not as a moral issue, but a practical one. But there are lots of people carrying .357 magnums, and .45/.40/9mm pistols stoked with modern ammo that is proven effective.flechero wrote:I don't buy into the pass through argument at all. I have read a number of articles over the years that cited gunfight data from LEO and ABC agencies that all gave a relatively low number of percentage of hits. So if statistically speaking more shots miss than hit, you can't worry about a hit that may pass through. And if you still do, you'd have to shoot a really anemic load or caliber to guarantee no exit... and to get there you would still have to be a supreme operator to guarantee no misses... oh wait, even our very best can miss under that kind of pressure with a moving target!
Bottom line is that you should not worry about a pass through, but since a miss won't stop an attacker and is a real liability, train to minimize that possibility instead.
Way more folks get struck by lightning each year than people that have to worry about preforming perfectly under pressure in a life/death situation and then have a round pass through the intended target into another person.
And lets say all that falls into line and you can see it develop in front of you... would you NOT shoot/stop an active shooter because you might catch someone else on the pass through??? (also realizing that a pass through would have exhausted much /most of it's energy going through the first person- so the chances of it doing major damage to the 2nd is diminished considerably)
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Return to “Pass through shots/ liability”
- Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:14 am
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Pass through shots/ liability
- Replies: 24
- Views: 5186
Re: Pass through shots/ liability
- Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:14 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Pass through shots/ liability
- Replies: 24
- Views: 5186
Re: Pass through shots/ liability
But HST, Gold Dot, and Critical Duty all perform fairly well against barriers, and will still mushroom in the target's body. No bullet design is going to be absolutely prefect in that regard, but those three have performed fairly well in tests.Bitter Clinger wrote:If I have to shoot thru cover to defend my life or the life of my loved one, say a car door or a gypsum wall, then I want maximum penetration. Shoot to eliminate the threat and get the best lawyer available.Soccerdad1995 wrote:IANAL, but I believe that you could almost always be held liable if you are negligent. That said, if you choose ammo that is designed to minimize pass-through risk, and you do everything possible to avoid a shot where there is a non-threat beyond your target, you should have a pretty strong defense.
If I am ever forced to fire my weapon at a threat, I fully expect negative outcomes, including lost time and money on my part. That's why it is a last resort after all other options have failed. Any negative result will be better than the alternative of death or serious injury to myself or my family members.
For me, FMJ is a "I've run out of ammo, and this what I've got left" choice. I keep my 33 round Glock mags charged with FMJ, but I don't typically carry those around with me.
- Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:22 pm
- Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
- Topic: Pass through shots/ liability
- Replies: 24
- Views: 5186
Re: Pass through shots/ liability
What Jusme said, which is one half of why packing FMJs is such a high risk proposition - the other half being that they won't stop someone as effectively. Sure, the person will eventually bleed out.........eventually.......but if pain is worth anything at all, a nicely mushroomed hollow point is likely to be more effective and cause a slightly bigger temporary stretch cavity, without the inherent risk of a pass-through.