TexasCHLforum.com

dlh wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Just in case you want to spend even more money on your Shockwave, I give you this: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017 ... shockwave/

It only adds $214 to the cost of your Shockwave......or about another 50%.

Wow! Isn't that what The Terminator carried in that movie?

Could be.... I don’t know. All I know is that if your gun is short, you have to take steps to make it look bigger. I figure this kit is kind of like the proverbial stuffed sock in the pants...... I especially like the little stabby thing at the end.......as if a load of 12 gauge buckshot won’t hurt bad enough, here, let me poke you real hard too. But I don’t believe that full effect is achieved though unless you’re wearing a heavy biker jacket, have a German accent, and red glow-in-the-dark eyeballs that display data on the retinas.

Plus, the full length rail is pretty handy if you want to mount a US Optics long range sniper scope, or maybe a headlight off of an old Buick, or maybe even one of the early starlight scopes they used to put on the M2 carbines.........it can even double as a cheese grater for those late night grilled cheese Sammie’s in a fox hole. Who doesn’t remember those fondly?

Just in case you want to spend even more money on your Shockwave, I give you this: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017 ... shockwave/

It only adds $214 to the cost of your Shockwave......or about another 50%.

puma guy wrote:Picked up my Shockwave yesterday and learned the box got wet on one end during the hurricane. The SG didn't get wet. My LGS had several Shockwaves held until Sept 1 that had boxes damaged as well so Mossberg is sending them new boxes. Gonna try to get to the range to try it with the Federal #1 Buckshot Flite control shells if PSC dries out before I have some surgery that will put me out of commission for a while.

Ordered one of these in black. I've got to figure a way to attach it for easy reach access from the rear of my truck. Voodoo Tactical 20-8916 Breacher's Shotgun Scabbard

VooDoo Breachers Scabbard.jpg

I have essentially that same scabbard, purchased at a Fort Worth mil-surp store, for my 20" 590A1. It is a VERY handy way to transport a shotgun.

rotor wrote:TAM
You have exactly noted my concern. One would think that the term conceal would not need clarification but potentially it could be a problem. Place a Shockwave in a backpack carried on your back and you are illegal. Carry in a gun case, who knows. Carry exposed and little old ladies call the police (who probably won't know either). Logic says that the proper way to carry this on the way to the range would be in a gun case but when has logic ever been a determining factor with the law? I think that if I owned one of these I would buy the $5 A.O.W. stamp just to avoid the possible ( although unlikely ) possibility of a legal problem.

What would be a real smart marketing move for Mossberg would be to commission the making of Shockwave-sized gun cases - kind of like Ruger did with the case for the 10/22 takedown rifles - bearing the Mossberg logo, pockets for extra shot shells, etc., and sell them online for a reasonable price. I'll bet they'd sell every last one of them. It would solve both the concealment and transportation issues.

rotor wrote:TAM
This from Mossberg website

"3. Do not carry the Mossberg Shockwave concealed. If this gun is carry concealed, it would
be defined by BATFE as an A.O.W. and the user could be charged with possession of an
unregistered NFA weapon."

Possession of an unregistered NFA weapon is illegal. Correct?

Yes, possession of an unregistered NFA weapon is illegal. I didn't see the Mossberg warning. But then that begs a lot of other questions. If you store it in the trunk of your car, is it "concealed"? If you store it in a case at home, is it "concealed"?

Revisiting the Mossberg/ATF letter: http://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uplo ... 3-2-17.pdf,

Finally, the NFA, 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e), defines "any other weapon" as follows:

...any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

So it appears that the qualifier is "capable of being concealed on the person.....". So, it appears that if you are carrying the Shockwave concealed on your person - the same way you'd conceal a handgun on your person - then you're violating the NFA. So it really boils down to whether or not openly carrying a cased Shockwave constitutes (A) "on your person", and (B) "concealed".

Now I understand the confusion.

Here's my "caveman lawyer" guess...... You can't carry the Shockwave concealed on your person as an alternative to having a carry license and a concealed handgun, but I don't think the Feds are going to drag you off to jail for carrying one in a gun case to a shooting range, for the reason that both you and they would argue that having it cased while transported is safer.

rotor wrote:

von Clausewitz wrote:

rotor wrote:

Jusme wrote:

rotor wrote:After reading this long thread clarify for me whether this firearm will be legal (9/1) to carry in a guncase of some kind or will the only legal way to transport it would be with it out in the open? I can see the little old lady man with a gun calls now. I carry my shotguns in a case whenever I travel. This firearm may be illegal to carry in a case. More problems.

From my understanding, and I'm far from a layer, or legal scholar, this type of firearm, was specifically, designated to be legal to carry, due to its designation from the ATFE. I don't know that it was specifically, considered "illegal", but there was a question, prior to the bill during the last session. JMHO

Mossberg site says if concealed it is an A.O.W.
https://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/upl ... ACTION.pdf
So how does one transport this without scaring the population at large? Even putting it in a back pack would appear to make it an A.O.W. as far as ATF is concerned. We are going to need some method to carry this. I am sticking to my new Mossberg Maverick 88 but I am curious about all firearms.

If one does not have a Texas LTC and wants to take a weapon to the range, is it concealed carry to put the gun in a case and walk down the street enroute to the range?

I am specifically referring to Federal law about carrying it concealed. You are quoting Texas law. Just because it is shipped to a store in a box does not mean Mr. Citizen can carry this around in a box or a violin case without it being considered an A.O.W. by the feds even on the way to the range. Federal laws are far from logical and probably easy to break and hard to catch. Look at all the people going to the post office every day. Probably a lot of them with guns in their glovebox. I personally do not plan on buying one of these but I was curious about how one could carry it and even if it was ATF legal to carry in a guncase. I am of the belief that it is not. LTC laws are not applicable in this case.

I would submit the following.......

1. Is there actually ANY federal law against concealed carry of a firearm of any type? So far as I know, the answer would be no. My reasoning is thus: States decide who can and cannot carry a concealed firearm. Not all states that issue concealed carry licenses issue them specifically for handguns - like ours is. Other states have "CW" permit - meaning a permit to carry a concealed weapon, which is a much broader category of implements than just handguns.

2. Federal law pre-empts state law. Period:

1. If the federal gov't had a law against concealed carry of handguns, it would pre-empt state law for concealed carry of handguns, and invalidate ALL concealed handgun licenses nationwide.
2. If the federal gov't had a law against concealed carry of long guns, it would pre-empt state law for concealed carry of long guns, invalidating all such state laws nationwide.
3. If the federal gov't had a law against the concealed carry of SBRs, SBSs, or AOWs, it would pre-empt state law for concealed carry of those types of weapons, invalidating all such state laws nationwide.

ERGO: If the federal gov't had any of the above laws on the books, Texas could not grant you permission to:

1. Carry your cased handgun to the range without a LTC;
2. Carry your cased long gun to the range with or without an LTC (which does not apply to long guns);
3. Carry your cased SBR, SBS, or AOW to the range with or without an LTC (which does not apply to those categories of weapons).

Furthermore, if the federal gov't had any law against the open carry of any of the above kind of weapons, it would trump state law in the matter. Therefore, it would be illegal to openly carry a long gun in Texas, no matter what Texas law says in the matter. The fedgov't would have a field day during dove or deer season in Texas if open carry of long guns violated federal law.

CONCLUSION: It is completely legal for you to carry your cased Shockwave to the range. The AFT regulates possession and/or taxation of different kinds of guns, but to the best of my knowledge, it does not regulate their concealment one way or the other. The original state purpose for registering and regulating SBR/SBS/AOW did have to do with their concealability, but in their infinite wisdom, the Feds decided to regulate their possession rather than their manner of carry. So if you're legal in the eyes of the fedgov't to possess the weapon, then whether or not you may carry it by whatever means is left entirely up to the state to decide.

In Texas, you can carry your Shockwave any old way you want. Just be advised that local LEOs might not be up to speed on all this, and mere causation would dictate having it in a bag or case of some kind so that it is not readily viewed unless you deploy it.

However your FFL handles it, the thing is that there is no federal violation for buying one now. It's strictly a Texas violation.....until September 1st, after which the violation ceases to exist. So from your FFL's perspective, they need not fear ATF.

puma guy wrote:This one has my name on it.

Nice! I'm just a little jealous.

Pawpaw wrote:

joe817 wrote:In PawPaw's video(thank you!) Clint was holding the gun as if there were an imaginary buttstock on it. Make sense to me. It's certainly not a handheld gun, unless you have super strength to handle the recoil. No, I think I'll pass on it.

How about one in each hand?

One thing is for sure......if I get one, I won't be putting that oversized Elite Tactical Advantage safety switch you convinced me to put on my 590A1. If the OEM safety switch can bite you, that other one will take a big chunk out of you:

ELB wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

nyj wrote:So what's the verdict?

Will be legal in Texas on September 1st of this year. The Legislature passed a bill, which Gov Abbott signed, which cleared up the definitions to make guns like the Shockwave and Remington's TAC-14 legal.

It might be legal now. Definitely legal in Sep.

I'll have to look into it. I thought that the law was effective 9/1, but I may not remember correctly.

nyj wrote:So what's the verdict?

Will be legal in Texas on September 1st of this year. The Legislature passed a bill, which Gov Abbott signed, which cleared up the definitions to make guns like the Shockwave and Remington's TAC-14 legal.

austinmc62 wrote:As an interesting point an attorney pointed me to the fact that while 46.01 does not define a shotgun, Texas Parks and wildlife uses the term "Legal Shotgun" which in part is defined as a

Legal Shotguns: Shotguns not larger than 10-gauge, fired from the shoulder, and incapable of holding more than three shells. Shotguns capable of holding more than three shells must be plugged with a one piece filler which cannot be removed without disassembling the gun, so the gun's total capacity does not exceed three shells.

You can make the argument that Texas Parks and Wildlife has defined the essential elements of a shotgun.

Welcome to the forum. That's not a shotgun definition, but is rather a restriction for hunting purposes only, and has no bearing on whether or not you can have a 8+1 pump action or semiautomatic shotgun for home defense (you can). The analogous case would be those states where you can have any capacity magazine you want for your AR15 for home defense or range/competition use, whereas hunting with an AR15 in those states requires the magazine to be restricted to X number of rounds (typically 5).

Pawpaw wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:Secondarily, the Shockwave is 26.37" long. What is the overall length of an 18" barreled pump gun with a regular pistol grip in place of a shoulder stock? The barrel is 4" longer, the receiver the same length, but the stock/grip about 4" shorter than the Shockwave. From the above conversation, it would seem that such a gun would circumvent Texas law AND the NFA regs, and not be significantly longer than the Shockwave.......or am I missing something? Don't these models already exist?

31" - http://www.mossberg.com/product/500-tac ... hot-50440/

Thanks for the link. I was sure I remembered correctly. But, 31" is 5" longer than 26"......but would that matter? If the Shockwave is based on a 590, then is the 590's receiver shorter than the 500's receiver? That's got me confused, because although the Shockwave's barrel is 4" shorter than the 500 Tactical, the Shockwave's grip is a lot longer. They ought to be within an inch or so of one another, so I'm wondering why the Shockwave is so much shorter.

Interestingly, Mossberg lists the Shockwave under "shotguns" in their website's menu. I wonder if this will rear up and bite them on the butt:

http://www.mossberg.com/product/590-sho ... hot-50659/



Secondarily, the Shockwave is 26.37" long. What is the overall length of an 18" barreled pump gun with a regular pistol grip in place of a shoulder stock? The barrel is 4" longer, the receiver the same length, but the stock/grip about 4" shorter than the Shockwave. From the above conversation, it would seem that such a gun would circumvent Texas law AND the NFA regs, and not be significantly longer than the Shockwave.......or am I missing something? Don't these models already exist?