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Liberty wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:
If you have a Glock, the procedure is very simple: unload AND CLEAR the gun. Verify clear with more than one rack of the slide. Set the magazine(s) and ejected cartridge aside - preferably in another room. Strip the gun. End of problem.

A good Idea for any gun. I don't have any criticism for folks who safely carry a Glock. Just that they aren't for me, as long as there are other more suitable handguns. I just believe there are valid safety reasons for classic hammer fired SA/DA handguns. There is a larger margin of error. I do believe that a holster with retention will mitigate some of the issues I have. Most of my holsters are low retention types.

I do understand that some folks don't care for the long hard first trigger pull of DA/SA But I think that in a combat situation that the trigger isn't going to make much of a difference in first shot situation, with adrenalin and all.

One of the things I really liked about my old hammer fired USP Compact .40 was that it could be carried cocked and locked, OR decocked with a DA first pull. I just didn't like the caliber in the end. IF I had bought it in .45 or 9mm, I'd likely still have it. It's a great pistol.

Liberty wrote:What I find frustrating is the fading away of the traditional hammered SA/DA handgun. Thereseem to be fewer and fewer of them on the market, with DA being more common. I find the 1911 is just too finicky to trust especially the commander and subcompact models. Running enough defense ammo to build confidence enough to trust these things is can be an expensive proposition. I will likely buy a nice 1911 someday, but It would likely never be carried as a primary defense gun.

Glocks, to me, just don't have that margin of error for safety. An instinctive grab for a falling gun, or the quick wandering hands of a toddler are risks that concern me. I like the idea of a mechanical safety. Perhaps a holster with good retention would relieve me of some of my concerns. I am also uncomfortable with the concept of pulling the trigger to disassemble the gun.

Glocks and 1911s aren't bad guns, They just aren't the best choice for everyone.

I understand your concerns about the Glock, and it took me a while to get to the idea of the internal safeties that prevent a dropped Glock from discharging, and the idea of the trigger safety had to be overcome too. But in the end, I accepted that they work as advertised, and that's when I got comfortable with the idea of carrying one. I had to come to two conclusions:

(1) to never reflexively grab for a dropped gun....a scuffed finish is better than a bullet hole any day of the week;

and (2)


As far as pulling the trigger to take down the gun...... yeah, if you don't follow procedure, you'll possibly could shoot yourself. Did I ever tell you about the LAPD cop I helped to treat in our ER who had shot himself through the knee (top to bottom) with a 1911, ostensibly while cleaning his gun and sitting in his lazy boy with his feet up — ending his career as a cop? So.......

If you have a Glock, the procedure is very simple: unload AND CLEAR the gun. Verify clear with more than one rack of the slide. Set the magazine(s) and ejected cartridge aside - preferably in another room. Strip the gun. End of problem.

If that LAPD cop had followed procedure, he'd have had another 10-15 years as a cop - if he wanted it. Back when I was carrying 1911s exclusively, I used to make fun of Glock guys like Plaxico Burress who unintentionally shot himself......but then there is the famous YouTube video of the guy with a 1911 shooting himself in the thigh as he draws from a Serpa holster. And of course, who can forget the "DEA Gun Expert" who shoots himself in the foot in front of a bunch of impressionable children. Name a pistol platform, I'll probably find a YouTube video of someone ventilating himself with it. (Remember the guy with the pump action shotgun who looks down the muzzle of his "defective" shotgun, bangs the buttstock on the ground, and blow his hat off?)

ALL of these are cases of someone who did something stupid with a gun, and in MOST cases, it was having his booger hook in the bang switch when it didn't need to be or shouldn't have been. As far as kids go.... I have two grandbabies my wife and I babysit every day, and I have guns in the house. Right now, they can't get to them, so I don't worry about it. When they get a little bigger, I'm going to have to change the way I do things - but that would be true whether the gun was a Glock or a 1911, right? So I don't see the problem here.

So, "this is my safety, sir", and that's how we do that.

cmgee67 wrote:And friend of mine used to work for Dallas PD and he said when he was there 1911's were banned because two officers he knew at Dallas were in a gun fight and both got killed because their 1911's jammed. I' don't remember if it was two separate gun fights or the same one but nevertheless ,That's why I don't, I won't, and I will never trust a 1911 to save my life. Every 1911 I've used or handled have all jammed or malfunctioned in one way or another. Ruger, kimber, colt, Springfield, and a couple others. I have handled. All messed up. Ill stick with my Glocks.

It's a training issue. I've owned Kimbers, Springfields, and others, and my experience is the exact opposite of yours. The two and a half reasons I don't carry 1911s any longer are: (1) capacity; (2) weight; and (3) caliber. Caliber is the "half a reason", because I know you can get 9mm 1911s, but most of them are .45s, and the two that I still have in my safe are utterly reliable. One of the two that I have is the one that my own father staked his life on in the Pacific in 1945.

But, the 1911 is a precision instrument, and if your technique is not good, it will betray you. My youngest brother has a 1971 Jaguar XK-E V12, one of Great Britain's supercars of that era. It is fast as heck, and an absolute thrill to drive; and it feels like there is a direct connection between the steering wheel and the tires' contact patch with the pavement. Some would say that it feels rough, but it is actually telling you everything that is happening at the pavement level. That's what supercars do. If you are even slightly ham-handed with the steering, you'll be constantly fighting the car - because it will go exactly where you point it. There is zero slop there. if you're not precise with your inputs, you will be rewarded with imprecise reactions from the car. Everything about that car is like that. Press on the gas pedal, and there's no delay between the pressure on the pedal and the acceleration. Ditto with the brakes. But, drive it like it was designed to be driven, with skill and commitment, and you'll find yourself enjoying one of the all time great driving experiences.

That's what a 1911 is like. There is no room for slop. Your technique must be good. It is my experience that 1911s can be made to jam by limp-wristing them. But if you don't, they'll run like a top.

Now, all of that said, I too carry Glocks. But like I said above, it's a matter of weight, capacity, and caliber. I like Glocks. I didn't used to so much. I always thought they are good guns, but I just didn't think they were for me, and I carried 1911s. The first polymer-framed non-1911 pistol purchased for a carry gun was a HK USP Compact .40. The reason I bought it - other than wanting to try .40 S&W (turns out I don't like that caliber myself) - was that the grip angle was similar to the 1911, it had higher capacity, AND it could be carried cocked and locked in single action. (I could also carry it hammer down with a double action.) I eventually sold that pistol, but I continued to carry 1911s. My next foray into polymer framed pistols was a M&P45 - another gun that emulates the 1911 grip angle. It was lighter than a 1911, but even the full-sized M&P only carried 10 rounds in a mag, compared to an 8 round 1911 magazine. It was accurate and soft-shooting, but it wasn't enough of an advantage over a 1911. I still have the M&P, but I don't carry it anymore. My next foray into polymer-framed .45s was a XD(m)-45 Compact 3.8. I still have that one too. It's primary magazine holds 9+1, but the backup mag is a 13 rounder. It's a great gun - the softest shooting .45 I own, and it is VERY accurate. But...it has a massive slide, and fully loaded, it weighs a ton. I eventually bought a Glock 17, which fully loaded with two spare magazines, weighed less than the XD(m) fully loaded with two spare mags........and offered 58 total rounds (all three mags have +2 extensions on them) compared to the XD(m)'s 36 total rounds.

I started EDCing the G17, and that led to buying the G43 for deep concealment, then the G19, and most recently, a G26. So obviously, I like Glocks, and I do stake my life on them. But my choice of a Glock over a 1911 has nothing to do with whether or not I think the 1911 is unreliable. It is not. It served our military well for 74 years. Millions of people around the world have relied on it to protect themselves and their families. It has as good of a track record as any pistol ever made. The reason I carry Glocks isn't because I think they are better pistols - they're not. It's because they make sense for my particular carry needs. But they don't make sense for everyone's carry needs. In fact, 1911s make perfect sense for the carry needs of more than one of my friends - who are indeed very experienced pistoleros. You could even further say that I don't carry one because, in part, I'm not as experienced a pistolero as they are.