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by The Annoyed Man
Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:53 am
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Church carry
Replies: 26
Views: 6341

Re: Church carry

Morgan wrote:It's the fault of the state. If they would remove text instead of adding exceptions, the confusion would go away.
I disagree to some extent. Sure, it would make things easier in a superficial way, but it could make things a lot harder in more deeply important ways. Here's why:

What they are doing is "amending" existing law, not writing new law. When we amend the Constitution, we don't remove the older amendment that was cancelled out by the new amendment. See the 18th (Prohibition) and 21st (cancelling Prohibition) amendments for an example.

There is a very good reason for doing things this way, and that is so that we can have a record of how we got to where we are. Imagine that the 2nd got overturned by amendment. Wouldn't you want the record there for all to see that Americans had once enjoyed that right, so that future generations could undo the folly of the one that banned firearms?

That's why updates to the law are penned in the way they are. Even when passages are struck from the law, they remain in the text, but crossed out with a line through it, indicating what the law used to say.

That gives us a legal roadmap.
by The Annoyed Man
Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:11 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Church carry
Replies: 26
Views: 6341

Re: Church carry

This should have been THOROUGHLY covered in your CHL class.....

Read the RED TEXT below:

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm
Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain view of another person in a public place.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
  • (1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
    (2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
    (3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
    (4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
    (5) in an amusement park; or
    (6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.
(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(f) In this section:
  • (1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
    (2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
    (3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of force or deadly force under Chapter 9.

Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1214 (H.B. 1889), Sec. 2


(h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b) and (c) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, was:
  • (1) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or
    (2) a bailiff designated by the active judicial officer and engaged in escorting the officer.

Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1222 (H.B. 2300), Sec. 5


(h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b)(1), (2), and (4)-(6), and (c) that at the time of the commission of the offense, the actor was:
  • (1) a judge or justice of a federal court;
    (2) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or
    (3) a district attorney, assistant district attorney, criminal district attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, county attorney, or assistant county attorney.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06. [emphasis mine]
(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission.
(k) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(1) that the actor was not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code.
by The Annoyed Man
Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:53 pm
Forum: General Texas CHL Discussion
Topic: Church carry
Replies: 26
Views: 6341

Re: Church carry

mulfjohn wrote:Could someone that understands legal rhetoric help me to understand if we can carry in a church. The DPS regulations look like you can't but then they list all these subsections which are confusing. When I took my course my instructor said it was okay. Have been carrying for awhile but heard you couldn't in a church and now "I'm gun shy". Sorry for the pun.
Read a few sentences past where houses of worship are exempted from chl. It says that that section does not apply unless the church is posted 30-06. Yes, you can carry in church. I did today. I am often on stage when carrying......and I'm not the only one.

A search of this forum will yield about a bazillion previous threads on this topic.

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