TexasCHLforum.com

FML wrote:I don''t think MPA covers people walking to work.

jbarn wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:


[*]Unless you are an LEO, you can't legally carry a gun in Texas without a CHL. The exceptions would be:

• Inside your own home;
• between your home and your car;
• inside your car, and
• between your car and your place of business.

I think you meant "handgun", no? And there are other instances outlined in penal code 46.15(b), like while engaged in a lawful hunting or sporting where a handgun is commonly used. Or while traveling... Yes, I meant "handgun". I assumed that people would have understood that's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.





[*]You can NEVER carry your gun into stores or other people's property without a CHL, unless it is your place of business, and you have the owner's permission to carry in the place of business. "Usually" doesn't cut it. When you're breaking the law, you're.......well......breaking the law. There are very few legitimate reasons for breaking the law. I don't think he needs the owners permission to carry on the premises under his (the OPs) control. If the owner has conveyed control of the premise to him, that is all he needs. Right? Well, that would go to my comments elsewhere in the same post about owner permission. But the part I was specifically commenting about in this part of my post was to his statement that: "I usually don't carry my gun into stores or onto peoples property without there consent but there has been a few times that I wasn't sure if I was breaking the law or not." His use of the word "usually" implies that he sometimes does carry his gun into stores or onto peoples' property without their consent. That was what I was specifically addressing when I made the statement at the beginning of this section.





[*]Nobody, not even your employer, can give you permission to break the law and carry a gun "around his location" outdoors. You can only do that inside his business (assuming you are not otherwise disqualified from being in possession of a firearm). You can carry from your car in the parking lot into his place of business, but you can't randomly walk around the parking lot carrying a gun. In penal code 46.02, where the authority to carry on premises under you control comes from, the term premises means real property. That means he can carry outdoors if he could carry indoors. If the parking lot is his premises or his employers premises and he has control of those premises by virtue of his capacity as an employee, he can carry in the parking lot. You're correct, but he didn't specify "premises". He said "Other than that I have consent to carry my weapon to my business location inside and around." What does "around" mean? Does it mean "in the back lot"? Does it mean "down the block at the donut shop"? "The parking lot?" And then there is the question which I really don't know the answer to, but which applies here: can a business owner give effective control of the premises, and hence permission to carry, to an employee who is not on the clock? For instance, the work day is over and we're all just hanging out having tea and crumpets, and we're off the clock....can the owner give permission to carry on the premises when our activities are not work-related? So this is a gray area, at least in my mind, and if the OP just went and got his CHL, then all of this becomes moot.


You can't park a half-mile away away and carry concealed from your car into the place of business. While I don't want to split hairs on distance, if a half a mile is as close as he could reasonable park and he is legal carrying at work, why would half a mile be too far? How about a quarter mile? Again, not trying to be argumentative, just seeking clarity I think that's one of those "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it" kinds of answers. It's a question of who controls the property between where the OP parks, and the business entrance. If all of that 1/2 mile of land between where the car is parked and the door of the business belonged to the business owner, then I guess it would be OK. But the business owner cannot give the OP permission to carry concealed without a license to walk across land that is not under the owner's control, and I'm willing to bet that pretty much any cop would agree with me. If it were legal for the business owner to give an unlicensed person person permission to carry from a parking lot a half-mile away from the business, across land not owned/controlled by the business owner, then what is to stop the business owner to give permission to his employee to carry concealed while walking the 5 miles from his house to the office? Of course, he can't, and neither can he give the employee permission to carry a concealed firearm from his car just two blocks away......unless that distance AND the sidewalks are all on property under the owner's control. I'm pretty sure that law enforcement would agree.

I think that is a great post and some good advice. I hope you will not mind if I offer some small suggestions, seen in red above. I don't mind at all. Follow up comments in blue.

Thanks

Gold3n wrote:Hello everyone. I'm new to the forum and was hoping to get some information to clear a few things up. First of all I don't have a CHL. I never bothered trying to get one because it's highly unlikely that I would qualify. I've gotten myself into quite a bit of trouble in the past and there's not much I can do now to change that. The worst thing probably holding me back from getting a CHL is an Aggravated Assault with a Deadly weapon charge I received when I was 16. I was charged as a juvenile and agreed to 1 year probation with a lesser charge of assault. When I turned 18, I received a class C misdemeanor theft charge and then a misdemeanor evading arrest charge in my mid teens. [#1] I'm 34 now and haven't been in any legal trouble for about 7 years or so. I was wondering if it will ever be possible for me to qualify or most likely not due to the assault charge?

Anyways, if I can't get a CHL then [#2] I will need to know how to legally carry a firearm in Texas without a CHL. Would a CHL class help with understanding the laws to carry without a CHL since I probably won't be able to get the license? I realized most of my life I might have carried illegally in certain situations because I don't have a license to do so. I've been carrying guns on my person and in my vehicles since I was 18. [#3] This weapons law actually concerns me a lot because I can't afford to get into any more legal troubles or worse. [#4] I usually [emphasis mine] don't carry my gun into stores or onto peoples property without there consent but there has been a few times that I wasn't sure if I was breaking the law or not.

For example [#5] having a loaded gun on my person in a holster while outside of my vehicle pumping gas. I never bring it into the store and if I need to go into the store I un-holster my weapon and put it under the driver seat or glove compartment. Sometimes I get lazy and just lay a towel over it sitting on my passenger seat. Usually when I'm driving it's in my holster or stuffed between the crevice of the driver seat and center console for fast access. Of course if I get pulled over by police the gun goes into the glove compartment with the quickness before I even stop. Always concealed when it needs to be. Then again sometimes when I'm driving my truck I have rifles and sometimes a shotgun laying visible in my backseat. I'm about 99% sure that's legal though because if not I would have been arrested by now. Actually remembering the time I got pulled over and had an AK47 and a 30_06 rifle laying in my backseat. Officer said, "Jesus Christ boy! what the heck are you doing?" lol

Well anyways that is my routine for carrying inside my vehicle and clearing my weapon from sight if pulled over by police for any reason. I definitely don't want to make any law enforcement concerned for his or her well being or worse get shot because they notice I have a firearm. So it always goes into the glove box in that situation. Which is sometimes tricky because I drive a manual sports car now.

Other than that I have consent to carry my weapon to my business location inside [#6] and around. This I also researched and believe is legal?

So basically [#7] I'm not confident that I'm following the law 100% when I carry daily. Any advise that could help please let me know. I'm actually considering spending the money for the CHL class even though I won't apply to get the license.

1. Without knowing what you got in trouble for 7 years ago, nobody can accurately answer that question. But yes, taking the class would help you to better understand all the times you've broken the law. Beyond that, what have you done to change your life so that you stay out of trouble? That is a lot different than asking, what are you doing differently to not get caught. In other words, you can't "get caught" if you're not breaking the law. Have you changed your behavior so that you can't get caught? A couple of things below would seem to indicate that the answer is "NO, I am still engaging in behaviors in which I can get caught."
2. Unless you are an LEO, you can't legally carry a gun in Texas without a CHL. The exceptions would be:
   • Inside your own home;
   • between your home and your car;
   • inside your car, and
   • between your car and your place of business.
3. If you can't afford to get into any more trouble, why are you carrying a gun without being absolutely certain about your legal status in doing so? It sounds like you will probably continue to carry illegally if you don't get a CHL. If I were in your shoes, I would go ahead and try to get it. There's no downside. If the state decides not to issue you the license, at least you'll have gotten yourself informed in the class, and you won't be any worse off than you are right now. . . . .whereas if you persist in carrying illegally and get caught, you'll be a whole lot worse off than you would have been.
4. You can NEVER carry your gun into stores or other people's property without a CHL, unless it is your place of business, and you have the owner's permission to carry in the place of business. "Usually" doesn't cut it. When you're breaking the law, you're.......well......breaking the law. There are very few legitimate reasons for breaking the law.
5. You may not pump gas with your gun concealed on your person without a CHL. The legal protections of having a gun IN your vehicle without a CHL do not extend to OUTSIDE the vehicle......not even NEXT to the vehicle while pumping gas.
6. Nobody, not even your employer, can give you permission to break the law and carry a gun "around his location" outdoors. You can only do that inside his business (assuming you are not otherwise disqualified from being in possession of a firearm). You can carry from your car in the parking lot into his place of business, but you can't randomly walk around the parking lot carrying a gun. You can't park a half-mile away away and carry concealed from your car into the place of business. An example here would be if I were visiting a friend who owned his own home, and I wanted to open-carry a pistol in his front yard. Not even he as the home owner can give me permission to break the law and open-carry.....even if it were legal for him to do so in his own yard.
7. If you are not 100% confident that you are not breaking the law, when you "carry daily", then what the heck are you doing?