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gigag04 wrote:1-4x optics are nice but get heavy when doing dynamic shooting/training. I still have a 1-3 on my patrol rifle but the weight really bugs me. It's a trade-off I make. The 1-4x would be good for your use, but why not get a 3x9 just to see where you find yourself dialing in the most? I find most recreational enjoy a bit stronger glass to shoot really tight groups at distance or hit a small lethal area on a pig. TAMs post is solid though if you go that route. He's probably procured more glass than I have.

I might have bought more in quantity, but I've made my share of mistakes too. My first exposure to low power variable optic scopes was the Leupold 1.5-5X33 Scout Scope I bought for my Gunsite Scout rifle, but I bought that one after I had already bought that Burris AR-536 for my AR15 I posted about a while back. I really liked the AR-536 a lot, particularly the reticle, but 5X fixed power is difficult to use for things that are closer in, and even though I like having that level of magnification, it's not very useful for close up, and in retrospect I wish I had spent more money and bought a good variable power in the 1-5X range. My scout scope is a Firedot, which means that it has a plain red dot in the center of a simple plex reticle, and I've come to respect a simple dot if you know something about your bullet's ballistics. I have had real good luck with SWFA's SS brand twice before, and they have a 1-6X that I'd be willing to consider too.

So I don't know ultimately what I'm going to do with my carbine, but despite my fading eyesight I'm leaning toward small and light with no magnification. With a (Santos Modified) 50 yard battle zero, an AR15 carbine is within 2" and 2" low all the way out to 225 yards.......further than I can see with the unaided eye.....and I have .308 rifles with variable power optics of decent magnification if I need to shoot further than that.

Since I gave her the EOTech sight to my wife for her carbine, I'm still on the quest for the perfect optic for mine. I am impressed with my son's Aimpoint micro H1, which is on an American Defense T1-10 mount. It's small and light, and the battery life is really really long. I'm getting less and less interested in carrying more weight than necessary, so something really small and light like the Aimpoint is looking better and better.

maverick2076 wrote:You can run a red dot and scope combo. Leupold makes the HAMR, which is pretty awesome, and their are offset mounts for micro reflex and red dots you can use. Its expensive, though. A cheaper option is to run a scope and offset iron sights for your close shots.

Burris has a scope/red dot combo. Two of the links I posted above are exactly that. Here's the MTAC with the FastFire red dot attached: http://burrisoptics.com/mtac1x4x.html—$498.95 at SWFA, P.E.P.R. Mount included.


Here's the Fullfield TAC30 with the FastFire red dot on top of it: http://burrisoptics.com/fftac30.html—$598.95 at SWFA, P.E.P.R. Mount included.


You can get a whole lot more scope than these, that I've listed, but for a whole lot more money. As a general thing, with a precision rifle, particularly a precision bolt action, I advise people to not cheap out on optics. Be prepared to spend up to and beyond the price of the rifle if necessary, but a rule of thumb I try to follow is to spend between half the value of the rifle to the full value of the rifle on an optic. So for a $400 gun, be prepared to spend between $200 and $400 on the optic. For a $2,000 gun, be prepared to spend between $1,000 and $2,000 for the optic. That's just a rule of thumb. My AR10 is a $3,000 rifle. The scope I've mounted on it is a $1,500.00 scope.

But most AR15s cost considerably less than that, and unless it is in a long heavy barreled varmint configuration, you don't really need to mount a $1,400 Trijicon ACOG on a $800 Bushmaster carbine. But a $400-$500 scope or reflex sight would be perfectly appropriate for that. That's why I tell people who are looking for optics for an AR Carbine to look in the price range that I listed above with all those selections from SWFA.

And age has a LOT to do with it. I would have had no problem shooting at 200 yards with no magnification 10 or 15 years ago. But my eyesight has deteriorated enough now that outside of CQB distances, magnification is a must for me.

FL450 wrote:I am about to start my first AR build as well as my first AR while my wife and kids are doing a girls New York Trip.
I am starting to research red dots and scopes. Leaning toward red dots and looking for opinions from the members of the finest forum in the country. So far my head is swimming with information. Following are some details to help narrow down the choices.
Price range 200-500 dollars. I would rather cry once and buy once. I don't want to waste 200 dollars but if I can get an acceptable scope for 200 I could budget for that. If I am going to not be happy for a year or so with a 200 dollar scope or regret it as soon as I used a 500 dollar scope then I will save a little longer and purchase once.
Use- 25-200 yards range use and hogs.
Pro's and Con's of scopes vs red dots and holographic sites.
Do I need 3X for red dot?
I do wear glasses and have a stigmatism which I have heard can affect red dot crispness
Also if you have any preferred retailers let me know.
I have been researching on AR15.com, M4Carbine, Optix planet but I will only post questions on this board because this board doesn't tolerate childishness.
Any think I haven't thought of?

I would probably go with a 1-4x with an illuminated reticle of some kind. If you go for a red dot, you'll eventually want a magnifier, and that's another chunk of change. My EOTech sight was something like $429, but the EOTech brand 3X magnifier with a A.R.M.S. flip to side mount was another $499 (on E-bay). So the total, sales tax included, was nearly $900. You can get a pretty good 1-4X variable power scope for well under $500.

Examples:

• Nikon M223 1-4x30, $229.95 (reticle NOT illuminated): http://swfa.com/Nikon-1-4x20-M223-Rifle ... 45743.aspx
• Leupold VX-R Firedot 1.25-4x20, $429.95 (reticle illuminated): http://swfa.com/Leupold-125-4x20-VX-R-3 ... 48030.aspx
• Leupold VX-R Firedot Hog 1.25-4x20, $479.95 (reticle illuminated, BDC reticle): http://swfa.com/Leupold-125-4x20-VX-R-H ... 48032.aspx
• Leupold VX-R Firedot Patrol 1.25-4x20, $579.95 (reticle illuminated, tactical milling reticle): http://swfa.com/Leupold-125-4x20-VX-R-P ... 49444.aspx (This one is $100 more than the next most expensive one, but it has a better reticle for tactical use.)
• Burris MTAC 1-4x24, includes S.S.A.L.T. scope mount, $409.05 (reticle is an illuminated ballistic plex which is excellent....I have one on another Burris optic): http://swfa.com/Burris-1-4x24-MTAC-30mm ... 61993.aspx
• Burris MTAC 1-4x24 (same as above), includes P.E.P.R. mount, AND includes FastFire II red dot, $598.95: http://swfa.com/Burris-1-4x24-MTAC-30mm ... 53420.aspx
• Burris 1-4x24 Fullfield TAC 30, $298.95 (reticle is same as the two above items): http://swfa.com/Burris-Fullfield-TAC-30 ... C1692.aspx
• Same as above, plus P.E.P.R. mount AND FastFire II red dot sight, $498.95: http://swfa.com/Burris-1-4x24-Fullfield ... 48172.aspx
• Bushnell 1-4x24 AR Optic, $227.95 (illuminated BTR-1 reticle, First Focal Plane—a very good thing): http://swfa.com/Bushnell-1-4x24-AR-Opti ... 61352.aspx
• Same as above PLUS S.S.A.L.T. mount kit, $259.95: http://swfa.com/Bushnell-1-4x24-AR-Opti ... 61988.aspx
• Leatherwood 1-4x24 CMR scope PLUS S.S.A.L.T. mount kit, $329.95 (illuminated milling reticle): http://swfa.com/Leatherwood-1-4x24-CMR- ... 47565.aspx
• Millett 1-4x24 DMS scope PLUS S.S.A.L.T. mount kit, $249.95 (illuminated "donut" with center dot): http://swfa.com/Millett-1-4x24-DMS-SWFA ... 42148.aspx

These are all sold at SWFA, but you can find some of them at other outlets too, and prices may vary slightly. I list them all here just to give you sense of all the different choices you have with a variable power scope, with prices well below your benchmark, to a little bit over it. All of these are good decent scopes.

As far as reflex optics like the EOTech, they have the advantage of nearly eliminating parallax. Parallax has a long-winded technical explanation, but simplified, it means that even if your eye does not have the red dot absolutely centered in the optic, the red dot is still pointing to where the bullet is going to go. This has the advantage of making target acquisition really fast. On the other hand, you don't have magnification in most of them. The only two I have any experience with are the EOTech, and the AIMPoint Micro H1. both are very nice. The Micro H1 weighs quite a bit less. Both are generally in the $500-$600 range.

Lastly, you might consider some kind of ACOG. The obvious one is the Trijicon ACOG. Trijicon glass is absolutely amazingly clear. OTH, they are really pricey. An alternative that is within more pedestrian budgets are the Burris 332AR and 536AR. The former is a 3X32mm fixed power optic, and the latter is a 5x36mm fixed power optic. Otherwise, they are identical. They have the same reticle as the Burris variable power scopes in the above list, but it can be displayed in either red or green with 5 brightness settings. In the off position, the reticle is plain black. They are $348.95 and $398.5 respectively. Here is a link to the 536AR: http://swfa.com/Burris-5x36-AR-536-Tact ... 53472.aspx. This is the one that I have on my AR carbine. It isn't perfect, but I like it a lot.

If I could afford it, I would look at one of the Mark 8 Leupolds, but I don't have $4,000.00.

....edited to fix URL for Millet scope, per Mojo's observation....