TexasCHLforum.com

sjfcontrol wrote:Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't see it as "gaming the system" at all. There is little gain to the student (saving a few rounds), and NO LOSS to Texas. That is different from those taking out-of-state licenses which was a thumb-of-the-nose at Texas, and eliminated the collection of license fees by Texas.

Like I said, if any instructor isn't comfortable with it, let DPS know what happened and let them handle it. I don't believe that instructors should be making up their own rules -- especially if that means failing a student that has otherwise fulfilled all the requirements.

And I didn't argue for failing a student who has otherwise fulfilled the requirements now, did I? I haven't said that I think instructors or students should be reported to DPS. You won't find those words anywhere in what I've posted. ALL I've said is that, given what the law says, I don't think it's a good idea. That's all I've said.

Lucky wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

jimd1981 wrote:If a student has clearly qualified by scoring 190-200 on the 3 and 7 yard strings (40 shots), can they stop?
That is, can he/she qualify with 40 rounds and skip the 15 yard strings -- or must they shoot 50 rounds, regardless?

The DPS says "To successfully qualify, shooters must complete this course with a minimum score of 70% (175 out of possible 250)."

They have more than the minimum score of 175, so I say they're fine. Stop if they want to.

What say you?

I say that the very first line of the Texas Administrative Code concerning the test says:

(a) The proficiency demonstration course will be the same for both instructors and license applications. The course of fire will be at distances of three, seven, and fifteen yards, for a total of fifty rounds.

Everything else follows that statement: http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/rea ... ch=6&rl=11

The last line of that section of the Texas Administration Code says:

(d) Upon successful completion of both the written and shooting proficiency examinations, the qualified handgun instructor may certify that the concealed handgun license applicant has established his or her proficiency, in a manner to be determined by the department.

My guess is that the state wouldn't take kindly to "gaming" the system if they knew it was going on.......but that's just me. For $140.00, I'll keep quiet about it.

As an instructor, what's your answer to sjfcontrol's question about a student who misses a shot during the time allowed because of an equipment malfunction or just shooting too slow?

Lucky, I'm not an instructor, so I don't have to tell the student anything. LOLZ.

That said, I realize that people are going to miss getting all 50 shots off because of malfunctions, etc. Heck, I've witnessed it myself. And obviously, I realize that one can exceed the minimum score required to pass the range qualification without having to fire all 50 shots to do so. At my first CGL range qualification, that's exactly what happened to me. The instructor came by, looked at my target X number of rounds into the qualification (I don't remember how many it was), and told me that I had already passed so it didn't matter how well I did from then on. In theory, I could have put my gun down and I would have passed the qualification. But I was having fun shooting, and I figured I couldn't damage my score any....so why not?

The thing is, as long as we are forced by law to go through this process if we want to carry a gun, then I'm a big believer in getting with the spirit of it and trying to do it right. That's why I added what I said about the legislature's attitude toward "gaming" the system and trying to twist their legislative intent. They NEVER take that stuff lightly, and if it gets around that enough people are "gaming the system" that way during range qualification, then their reaction isn't going to be in the direction of expanding human liberty. It will be in the opposite direction, and they'll add some extra mandatory crap on that nobody needs.....because that's what governments do. We've been through this recently with people who advertised their out-of-state non-resident carry license classes as an end-around to Texas CHL, and it created a backlash movement in both our legislature; and in the case of Utah, another state's legislature. So I'm always a bit leery of when people game the system because it makes trouble for everyone else.

And let's be honest about a couple of things: A) who will never benefit by getting in an extra 10 rounds of target practice, even if you don't need it to pass the qualification; and B) who doesn't like to shoot that last 10 rounds, even if you don't need it to pass the qualification?

10 rounds of whatever you're shooting isn't enough to put a dent in your "practice budget," so why cheese out on the test? But "cheesing out" on the test is different than running into a legitimate malfunction and barely getting in enough rounds to score a passing grade.

But all of this is just me. YMMV.

jimd1981 wrote:If a student has clearly qualified by scoring 190-200 on the 3 and 7 yard strings (40 shots), can they stop?
That is, can he/she qualify with 40 rounds and skip the 15 yard strings -- or must they shoot 50 rounds, regardless?

The DPS says "To successfully qualify, shooters must complete this course with a minimum score of 70% (175 out of possible 250)."

They have more than the minimum score of 175, so I say they're fine. Stop if they want to.

What say you?

I say that the very first line of the Texas Administrative Code concerning the test says:

(a) The proficiency demonstration course will be the same for both instructors and license applications. The course of fire will be at distances of three, seven, and fifteen yards, for a total of fifty rounds.

Everything else follows that statement: http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/rea ... ch=6&rl=11

The last line of that section of the Texas Administration Code says:

(d) Upon successful completion of both the written and shooting proficiency examinations, the qualified handgun instructor may certify that the concealed handgun license applicant has established his or her proficiency, in a manner to be determined by the department.

My guess is that the state wouldn't take kindly to "gaming" the system if they knew it was going on.......but that's just me. For $140.00, I'll keep quiet about it.