TexasCHLforum.com

apostate wrote:

chasfm11 wrote:Let's suppose that an outsider walks into the church with a gun. Let's also suppose that one of my fellow church members is an LEO or CHL . Without either of us knowing about the other, both of us draw and engage the outsider. Then what? With the threat hopefully neutralized, my next move almost anyplace else would likely be to turn in the direction of the other gunshots. I'm afraid that a LEO/CHL might do the same toward me. Things could get messy from there.

That's a legitimate concern, although one hardly unique to the church environment. A similar chain of events could unfold at a shopping mall, your place of business, or while stopping at H.E.B. for a gallon of milk on the way home.

This is why I made it a point to identify myself to the guys in security at my church.

smoothoperator wrote:God knows I carry. I trust Him to tell anyone else at the church who needs to know.

I'm going to borrow that line some day.

fickman wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

fickman wrote:For the church I attended from 2000-2008: I told the pastor because at that time, churches were statutorily off limits without permission. He loved it. He told me of a few other CHLers and who the off duty LEOs were. At least one perpetually-perturbed band member carried on stage, and one of the associate pastors had expressed interest in taking the CHL class. I knew of several others that wee unabashedly pro-2A. This was a larger church, but fairly conservative and carrying didn't seem to ruffle any feathers.

When we moved to our new church in 2008, the law regarding churches had changed, but I still told my pastor about my secret. The members are truly a close-knit family, so I know of a handful of other CHLers in the flock.

Would that be Ross that you talked to? I haven't spoken with him directly yet.

Indeed it was. . . back at the old building. He didn't even flinch when I asked for permission. He smiled and told me of a handful of others (who I knew well) and stated that a few off duty LEOs told him they always had theirs. He joked that he likes knowing we're there so that if something bad ever happened, he can run off stage and yell our names out and he goes. haha

Regarding the law changes. . . yes, I had very bad instructors for my initial class and renewal - Jim Wolfe at Bass Pro in Grapevine. During the initial class he was also working with Cary Mellema, but Cary wasn't helping when I took the renewal. Anyway, it was Cary who spoke about churches being off limits, but in his opinion, they were private property and you were OK as long as the leaders gave you permission, so that's what I did.

I found a much better class for my wife and sister (she used Crossfire) and won't repeat my mistake the next time I have to renew.

I took my first class from Jim Wolfe also. Also, I assume that the "perpetually perturbed band member" would be moi?

fickman wrote:For the church I attended from 2000-2008: I told the pastor because at that time, churches were statutorily off limits without permission. He loved it. He told me of a few other CHLers and who the off duty LEOs were. At least one perpetually-perturbed band member carried on stage, and one of the associate pastors had expressed interest in taking the CHL class. I knew of several others that wee unabashedly pro-2A. This was a larger church, but fairly conservative and carrying didn't seem to ruffle any feathers.

When we moved to our new church in 2008, the law regarding churches had changed, but I still told my pastor about my secret. The members are truly a close-knit family, so I know of a handful of other CHLers in the flock.

Would that be Ross that you talked to? I haven't spoken with him directly yet.

We have two teams of first responders during our services. One is a medical team, made up of off-duty paramedics. The other is made up of off-duty LEOs. All are church members. Of the LEOs, a couple have been to the range with me before, and probably 3 or 4 know that I have a CHL simply because we talk guns, and it has come up over the years. The first responder teams haven't been formed for that long....maybe early spring of this year. Anyway, since then I've actually had the conversation with the guy who heads up the LEO side of it. He has no problem with CHL. His own dad who is also a member of the church has one. My concern, which is what we talked about, was being clear that I didn't want to get mistaken for a bad guy in an active shooter scenario if I had to draw my gun. I suggested to him that it might be a good thing, wherever possible, to identify whomever in the congregation is a CHL holder, for much the same reason. He agreed, but we also realized that unless one of the other CHLs identified themselves to him or one of the other LEOs, there was little likelihood of that happening. In any case, all of these cops are young guys with a very pro-2nd amendment attitude, so they aren't really a problem. And for my own part, my circle of friends who know about my CHL include a couple of people on the pastoral staff as well as some of my fellow worship team members. Nobody cares....at least not in a negative way.

I love my church.