TexasCHLforum.com

gringo pistolero wrote:Can I order nine and have them delivered to SCOTUS?

If you phone Patriot Post, you could probably get them to send them to SCOTUS without charge to you.

Winchster wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Winchster wrote:TAM, You can pretty well bet that the day the internet, cell service and cable tv all go down simultaneously that people will be arming themselves in expectation of "something"

Some will be arming themselves. Others, like me, will already have been well armed. BUT......again......I strongly reiterate that this is NOT what we should be desiring. The founding fathers exhausted all other means of trying to get King George to reverse the course he pushed them onto. They did not WANT revolution. It was forced on them. That should be your attitude too.

So what does "exhaust all other means" actually mean? Well, how much money have you given to Mitt Romney's campaign since he is the de facto nominee who will be running against Obama? I put $200 of my hard earned, sparse dollars into his campaign a couple of days ago. What about donations to the political campaigns of other conservatives? How often do you buy booklets to distribute for free to reclaim the minds of the nation's youth? I buy THESE BOOKS 5 or 6 at a time and make sure that I always have 1 or 2 on me to give to a young person—high school or college age—to help them get the foundation that they never received in public schools. I have never failed to have a youngster that I gave that book to express genuine appreciation and say something like "I had no idea...."

There is a lot we can do to reclaim this country without resorting to the bullet box.......just yet.

Ok, so maybe my frustration is getting the better of me. However, I don't see a way back 60-70 years ago to a place where the fed wasn't this bloated, decidedly unconstitutional, monstrosity that it is today. I don't see how electing people into the current system, removes all the freebies that have been created. It's "too painful" and if it could be done in a single session, you can rest assured that the sheep would rally and throw them out of office on the next cycle and begin putting them all back in place. I don't see a way around it. People have become accustomed to a "nanny state" and by virtue of human nature, don't want to give anything up.

All that being said, I'm not advocating insurrection, but if it happened I'd participate versus hoping it went away. If that makes me a bad person, then I can live with that.

Hey, I understand the frustration. Believe me. And God forbid it should ever come to that pass, but it does and if I'm still able, I'll join you on that line. I just really don't want to have to go there, and nobody in their right mind should want it.

pops1982 wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Winchster wrote:TAM, You can pretty well bet that the day the internet, cell service and cable tv all go down simultaneously that people will be arming themselves in expectation of "something"

How often do you buy booklets to distribute for free to reclaim the minds of the nation's youth? I buy THESE BOOKS 5 or 6 at a time and make sure that I always have 1 or 2 on me to give to a young person—high school or college age—to help them get the foundation that they never received in public schools. I have never failed to have a youngster that I gave that book to express genuine appreciation and say something like "I had no idea...."

Ok TAM, I just purchased 20 of the books.

Good man, Pops.

Winchster wrote:TAM, You can pretty well bet that the day the internet, cell service and cable tv all go down simultaneously that people will be arming themselves in expectation of "something"

Some will be arming themselves. Others, like me, will already have been well armed. BUT......again......I strongly reiterate that this is NOT what we should be desiring. The founding fathers exhausted all other means of trying to get King George to reverse the course he pushed them onto. They did not WANT revolution. It was forced on them. That should be your attitude too.

So what does "exhaust all other means" actually mean? Well, how much money have you given to Mitt Romney's campaign since he is the de facto nominee who will be running against Obama? I put $200 of my hard earned, sparse dollars into his campaign a couple of days ago. What about donations to the political campaigns of other conservatives? How often do you buy booklets to distribute for free to reclaim the minds of the nation's youth? I buy THESE BOOKS 5 or 6 at a time and make sure that I always have 1 or 2 on me to give to a young person—high school or college age—to help them get the foundation that they never received in public schools. I have never failed to have a youngster that I gave that book to express genuine appreciation and say something like "I had no idea...."

There is a lot we can do to reclaim this country without resorting to the bullet box.......just yet.

(....edited to fix a spelling error.....)

Kythas wrote:

Winchster wrote:

Heartland Patriot wrote:For all of you who say things like "revolution is coming" or a new civil war is in the offing, please tell me how this will happen? I mean, what will start it? Because let me explain something to you: it takes a LARGE GROUP of people to do something like that. If the group is too small, they are labeled "terrorists" or "extremists" or just plain crazies...and then law enforcement will be sicked on them, and they WILL get arrested. And the press WILL tell everyone that the nation was saved by law enforcement who arrested said terrorists, extremists, or crazies...and folks will believe whatever the press tells them to believe. I hate the current administration. I despise their principles, their ideology and their methodology. But, all I can do is tell others WHY I don't like them and then I can go to the polls and VOTE AGAINST the administration and hope that enough of those I talked to will do the same. That's it, there is NOTHING ELSE, until such time as a large enough group of people, AS A WHOLE, come together to do something different than that. Everything else is wishful thinking, even if a lot of folks are thinking the same thing. The Civil War happened because a number of states seceded and banded together in their succession. They lost, yes, but that isn't the point of what I am saying...they were able to make a go of it because they were large enough of a group to do so...otherwise, they would simply have been arrested or captured, and probably hung for treason or imprisoned. So, once again, I challenge any of you who do not love this administration to come up with a plan to get them out of office, and to still feel as if you haven't compromised your principles.

The only way either occurs, is after we have lost all our freedom. "Frogs in a pot" and all that, otherwise you are correct, the numbers are too small to make any appreciable difference. People don't truly appreciate the liberties that we have and won't even begin to make true steps to take them back until we live in an oppressive socialist society. THEN, revolution is possible.

It is my humble opinion, that the best thing that could possibly happen now is for a state, any state, to have the courage to stand up and tell the feds off. For example, if the citizens of the State of Texas, voted for secession and had the willingness to follow through.

I would guess it begins like it did in Syria and Libya. Some group would start organizing protests, probably via social media. These protest would become large and begin provoking authorities. Local authorities would begin to use some level of force to counter the protesters. Some of the protest organizers would take video of the authorities' actions and post them online, provoking other people to become angry and join in the protests. At some point, it would become too much for local officials to handle and the national government would step in. Organizers would then provoke the national government, most likely military at this point, who would again respond with force, which would get video taped and spread, causing other people to become angry, etc.

Note this is what OWS tried and failed to do, partly because of the incredible amount of restraint by local authorities and also the American People saw through the OWS charade to who was behind it, also the provocation to local authority was far too egregious on the OWS side to provoke any sympathy from regular Americans.

Unfortunately, I think one of the first things the federal government would do in an insurrection would be to shut down any websites which posted these videos ASAP, denying that propaganda avenue to the insurrectionists. So actually what would have to happen is very much like what has happened in other parts of the world in the Internet age, which is that the videos get smuggled out of the country and posted to foreign web servers. Then the fed has to do like China and regulate Americans' access to foreign content.........which would further provoke more and more people to join the insurrection.

sjfcontrol wrote:But... Does obamacare cover insurrection gunshot wounds?

I don't know, but:

WSJ CHIEF ECONOMIST: 75% OF OBAMACARE COSTS WILL FALL ON BACKS OF THOSE MAKING LESS THAN $120K A YEAR
By: Jim Hoft
6/30/2012 11:44 AM
Human Events

Take Your Medicine, America…
Stephen Moore, Senior Economics Writer with the Wall Street Journal, told FOX and Friends this morning that nearly 75% of Obamacare costs will fall on the backs of those Americans making less than $120,000 a year.

[youtube][/youtube]

I smell democrats.

57Coastie wrote:

Winchster wrote: It is my humble opinion, that the best thing that could possibly happen now is for a state, any state, to have the courage to stand up and tell the feds off. For example, if the citizens of the State of Texas, voted for secession and had the willingness to follow through.

Several states tried that already, you know, and they lost the most horrible and bloody war our nation has ever engaged in. This time I suspect those remaining in the union would once again take guns, of all kinds, away from Texans, and not to keep them away from blacks this time. That would be productive only insofar as certain egos would be elevated, perhaps as they die, and as our great State succumbs.

I know I waste my breath here, as our respective opinions were most likely cast in bronze at birth, but I cannot sit on my hands and see such things said without being heard from, else these statements about all CHLers being reactionary conservatives will be believed by the choir to be true only because no reply is heard.

Jim

Actually, you're not wasting your breath with me. I find the thought of a revolution/succession pretty unsettling, and I agree that the last kerfuffle in 1860-1865 put paid to that. Where we disagree is probably in whether or not people in the mainstream are beginning to feel increasingly like they've been pushed almost to that limit. A lot have. Not everybody, but a lot. It's not just a "fringe element" phenomenon anymore. It's not sensible to live in denial of that.

Heartland Patriot wrote:For all of you who say things like "revolution is coming" or a new civil war is in the offing, please tell me how this will happen? I mean, what will start it? Because let me explain something to you: it takes a LARGE GROUP of people to do something like that. If the group is too small, they are labeled "terrorists" or "extremists" or just plain crazies...and then law enforcement will be sicked on them, and they WILL get arrested. And the press WILL tell everyone that the nation was saved by law enforcement who arrested said terrorists, extremists, or crazies...and folks will believe whatever the press tells them to believe. I hate the current administration. I despise their principles, their ideology and their methodology. But, all I can do is tell others WHY I don't like them and then I can go to the polls and VOTE AGAINST the administration and hope that enough of those I talked to will do the same. That's it, there is NOTHING ELSE, until such time as a large enough group of people, AS A WHOLE, come together to do something different than that. Everything else is wishful thinking, even if a lot of folks are thinking the same thing. The Civil War happened because a number of states seceded and banded together in their succession. They lost, yes, but that isn't the point of what I am saying...they were able to make a go of it because they were large enough of a group to do so...otherwise, they would simply have been arrested or captured, and probably hung for treason or imprisoned. So, once again, I challenge any of you who do not love this administration to come up with a plan to get them out of office, and to still feel as if you haven't compromised your principles.

Please note that each time I've mentioned it, I have said that this is not a desirable outcome, and that we ought to fear it. Our founders feared it enough to exercise every alternative pleading before the court of King George before they were pushed over the edge by various edicts and General Gage's actions. I. Do. Not. Want. That.

The reason I speak of it is because I am afraid that this is where we are being pushed, and I want progressives and weak-livered republicans and other liberals to get a dang clue before they blow things up with their foolishness.

That is where I am coming from. It worries me.

recaffeination wrote:You may not like it but he's right. Conservatves constantly compromising is how we got into the mess were in today.

Consider this. JFK was a Democrat but he was more right wing than any POTUS in the past twenty years. Democrat or Republican.

This is exactly the point I was making, which is why I mentioned Kennedy earlier.

Progressives don't compromise. Conservatives do (or have until now) because we desire an orderly society. Progressives are bullies and they don't give a darn about order (witness the OWS movement). This has resulted in an ever increasingly "progressive" society. Fair play alone demands that the shoe move to the other foot—although fairness has never been the hallmark of progressivism. Let progressives compromise for the the next 10 decades. Maybe we can restore some sanity this way. I've been accused of demonizing others. I call 'em like I see 'em. I'm not compromising anymore.

Kythas wrote:I travel a lot for work, all over the US and Canada.

In the US, one thing I've noticed over the last 12-18 months talking to my customers is the absolute certainty that the United States is headed for either another revolution or a second civil war. No matter the political leanings of my customers (who, strangely, have been overwhelmingly conservative or libertarian, even in Canada) they all believe this. Almost all of my US customers state if either a revolution happens, or Texas secedes, they will all pack up and move to Texas, as this is seen as the best place to be in either event. I would say 95% of my customers have flat out told me if Texas secedes, they will drop everything and move here the next day.

In fact, on my flight home yesterday there was a couple from Pennsylvania who were coming to Dallas because they bought some land here to retire on. When I asked them why they bought land in Texas the husband said "The tax situation, no snow, and when the revolution comes Texas is where I want to be."

I believe this speaks volumes as to the confidence the average American has in our current Federal government.

As a side note, my Canadian customers - almost to a person - have told me that we Americans should fight socialized medicine with everything we have. Very few of them love their health care system.

Kythas, your customers are expressing a very common viewpoint these days. There has always been talk of revolution and succession going back to the original Revolution, coming from a disgruntled fringe of society on either side. The difference these days is that you are hearing such talk from larger and larger numbers of people who are increasingly from the mainstream of society. The fringe elements from the past were often possessed of kind of cultic ideas about their own role in a post revolutionary world. But these days, you've got IT people, soccer moms, pastors, cops, insurance salesmen, and lawyers, among others, who are feeling not so much like they would like to start a rebellion against the government, but rather like they are being pushed into one by that government. They don't want to initiate one, but they are feeling like it may be thrust upon them by an out of control, grasping, overarching government which has forgotten that it governs at the pleasure of the people.

That's a huge difference: seeking revolution like the ever-present fringe versus the feeling of being pushed to that point like so many in the mainstream today. The sheer blindness of the left's deliberate unwillingness to believe that this is what they've done is appalling. But as I have posted many times, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

pinkpistol wrote:

So yes, I am more annoyed in the past 2 days than at any other time in my politically conscious career, and I am very, VERY afraid for the nation because fools are pushing us into ever more foolishness until we run headlong over the cliff of dissolution. All because people are just too proud to admit that they were wrong. And that is how great evil becomes an innate part of society.

Very sorry for you. This is not exactly what all people believe about governing. You have demonized too far.
Come back.

Being too willing to compromise too much too often for too long with people who are looking for something for nothing is what got us to this point. I am VERY willing to talk about good governance and put the principles of good governance into action. This is why I'm no longer willing to compromise. If you're in support of the healthcare bill, then yes, I've demonized you. I'm not going to lie about it and say that I feel any different than I do. We now live in intersting times—in the sense of the old Chinese curse—and progressivism (which is what we call "liberalism" today) got us here. FDR's New Deal, LBJ's Great Society, and now Obama's Hopey Changey are all examples of this. The last democrat president who had any financial sense or an understanding of the evils of socialism/communism was Jack Kennedy (who was a Life Member of the NRA, by the way). Others in this and the previous century have simply squandered the legacies built by their republican predecessors. Even Clinton, under whom the economy prospered (in part because, among other things, he was handed a fundamentally stable economy AND he was willing to sell access and a night in the Lincoln Bedroom to his friends on Wall Street) squandered the defense advantage built up by his predecessor.

Liberalism is the personality disorder of being stuck in infancy and expecting mommy to fix everything. However, children lack discernment, and thus evil is allowed to prosper.

pops1982 wrote:

psijac wrote:I have never seen TAM so... Annoyed!

Thats because we are watching our personal liberties go right out the window due to an out of control, massive and ever growing over reaching government. Some of us are not going to take this sitting down and it's time to stand up and be counted. I'm on TAM's side. Where do you stand? Keep your powder dry my friends.

In crafting this stinking manure pile of a lie, here's what the democrats did..... They assumed that everyone is either rich, or poor, and there are no in between. They mandate that everybody has to have insurance or pay a fine/penalty/tax/whateveryouwanttocallit, but the entire bill conspires to push insurance pricing up, not down. Why? Because they are willfully ignorant about capitalism and how it works. They think that if they WISH the price to go down, it will do so. I haven't decided yet if they are deliberately obtuse, or if it comes naturally to them. Scientists will let us know some day, I'm sure.

So, what happens is that they have put insurance, which was already out of the price range of some tens of millions of people, even further out of their price range. And because that insurance is most expensive to the uninsured, their STUPID LYING DISHONEST IMMORAL OPPRESSION of a bill means that it is those people whom they are trying to force to buy it who will mostly end up just paying the fine because it is cheaper, and they still won't have any insurance. All of this is going to make insurance more easily available to those who can already afford it because the higher risk individuals like me are actually filtered out of the pool by the effects of the language of the law and the law's ACTUAL (not wished for) effect on the insurance market.

Democrats are lame, and their policies just screw things up for everyone else. To them, everything is cheap and easy because they're always spending other people's money.

My own youngest brother, a registered Republican, phoned me on Thursday to bemoan the Court's upholding the bill. During the conversation he said that he regretted having voted for Obama. There was a long pause, and then he said, "I guess you could say 'I told you so.'" I said, "well I'm not going to rub your nose in your bad decision, but maybe you could try actually paying attention to the issues and to the candidate's record the next time. He was an ultra liberal, and you knew that; he had no federal experience, and you knew that, but you still voted for him?" He just got all caught up in the enthusiasm about "America's first black president" (and if anybody voted for him because he is black, that was a racist decision), and he just didn't pay attention. That's the problem with a large number of American voters. They just don't pay attention. They vote with their feelings, and not their brains; and then they wind up feeling internally conflicted because deep down in their hearts they KNOW it was a stupid decision, but they can't grow enough to admit that they were stupid and so they remain trapped in their stupidity, defending the indefensible.

I have no use for such people......unless, like my brother, they actually repent. Without repentance, there is no reformation of character, and the trap of stupidity, selfishness, and lack of commitment to the Constitution which underpins all we experience continues.

So yes, I am more annoyed in the past 2 days than at any other time in my politically conscious career, and I am very, VERY afraid for the nation because fools are pushing us into ever more foolishness until we run headlong over the cliff of dissolution. All because people are just too proud to admit that they were wrong. And that is how great evil becomes an innate part of society.

Dave2 wrote:So... I was watching Fox News today, and the democrats they had on were insisting that this really is a fine or penalty instead of a tax... Does that mean it's unconstitutional again?

No, it means that, as usual, they're lying again, just like they did when they were selling this pile of fish guts to us and saying then that it wasn't a tax. Democrats wouldn't know the truth if it bit 'em in the butt.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/a-modest-propos ... epage=true
A Modest Proposal
The chief justice threw down the gauntlet on Thursday to those of us who support limited government.
by RAND SIMBERG

Chief Justice Roberts, advertently or otherwise, has pointed out a flaw in the founding document, and we should use this opportunity, with the anger of the public, to patch it. I propose that we amend the Constitution.

I am not a lawyer, and don’t even play one on the Internet, despite my disquisitions on space property rights, but here are my proposed Constitutional amendments. Together, if there is any justice, they will be known historically as the “ObamaCare amendments.”

First, to deal with the Ninth:

• Congress shall not levy any tax on the people whose purpose is other than to raise revenue for legitimate government purposes, and in particular it shall not levy a tax on the people for the purpose of coercing their personal behavior, including purchase of a product.

And here’s the one to handle the Tenth:

• Congress shall not withhold federal funding for a state under any federal program because it does not comply with Congressional dictates.

Can someone tell me why a) this wouldn’t make it clear that “We the Founders really meant it” when they wrote amendments nine and ten and b) it wouldn’t be a great Republican Party plank and campaign issue in the fall?

Obviously, it’s a monumental task to take back the country. Absent a Constitutional Convention, which requires two thirds of states to call it, it requires a two-thirds majority in both the House and the Senate (though the president has no role). It obviously won’t happen with the current Congress, or one that we can elect next year. But there are a lot of Democrats who are vulnerable in 2014, and the only way to make it happen is to make it a project of the people who want to restrict government. It won’t happen overnight, but the time to start to make it happen is now.

And, from Hillsdale College.....
"A Principled Prescription for America's Health: The Perspective of a Doctor-Turned-Lawmaker"
[youtube][/youtube]

chasfm11 wrote:There is page after page in the ACA of "and the secretary (HHS) will write regulations" Sorry, the last time I looked, greater regulation is the antithesis of efficiency.

{snip}

I'm sorry but when you go through the flow chart and come to the block that says "and here a miracle occurs", you are not dealing in reality.

That's it in a nutshell. The democrats have perpetrated a total fraud on the rest of us. They've built a Rube Goldberg device in which critical components will not be designed until after the marble rolls down the first couple of chutes. It's not just irresponsible, it's just downright dishonest. They lie, and they cheat. That's what they do. They would know the right thing to do if it reared up and bit 'em on the butt. They disgust me.

03Lightningrocks wrote:

Crossfire wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote: The good news is that Romney will wax Obama's tail in November. I just donated $200 to his campaign not 10 minutes ago—the first political donation I've made in years. And God willing, he'll repeal this abortion of a tax bill.

And that's a pretty significant contribution for someone who only made $2500 last year!

That is like ten percent!

....of my profits, yes. But this is the year where I'm putting my money where my mouth is.