In the ER in the early 1980s, I once worked on a guy who had been shot by the clerk in an attempted liquor store robbery. The clerk's pistol was a 9mm of unknown manufacture. Anyway, the patient was hit twice. One bullet broke his upper arm. The other bullet went right through the right ventricle of his heart.......a killing shot.......except that it didn't kill him. He was shot with an FMJ. The bullet made a clean hole through and through, exiting his back, and the pericardium (the membraneous sack which contains the heart) sealed up on both sides, keeping him from bleeding out into his chest cavity. He would have eventually died of a pericardial tamponade, but when he got to us, he was very much alive, very much awake, and very much oriented to time and place. He still had to have his chest cracked to repair the damage or he would have certainly died, but he was not operated on until perhaps as long as an hour after he was shot. But in his particular case, he lacked the fortitude of undercarriage to stay in the fight and he gave up and laid down, begging for an ambulance.RPB wrote:How many rounds does it take to stop an intruder? ... Depends ...stroguy wrote:Then, a neighbor rushed over and shot at the suspect until he was killed.
LOL I want details. How many rounds does it take to stop an intruder? May need mandatory IDPA schooling or his sights were cockeyed haha.
Also they are searching for the second suspect. A good clue might be the crap in his britches from the 'oh crap wrong home' thoughts as the bullets were flying.Babyface Nelson was shot 17 times before he killed the 2 agents that shot him, then he went home. (Only to die later that evening)Angel Alvarez, hit 23 times in Harlem shootout with cops, held without bail on weapons charges
Alvarez ended up with 23 bullet wounds, but got out of the hospital Saturday.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-08 ... murder-rap" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, Placement is important, but 17 or 23 shots should have done something ...Some people may be more stubborn than others ... I read of a guy shot in the heart who ran a block or so afterwards ... like a chicken with its head cut off ... some don't know to fall down.
Contrary to popular understanding, while you don't see this type of injury everyday, it isn't that uncommon either. Almost anything capable of penetrating to the heart, including a knife blade, is capable of producing a pericardial tamponade without being immediately fatal. (In fact, it is fairly common to see a patient who has been "stabbed in the heart," where the tip of the blade just barely penetrated the pericardium and just nicked the heart muscle. The pericardium seals up, and the bleeding from that little nick in the heart wall into the pericardium is so slow that the symptoms of a developing tamponade don't develop until perhaps even an hour or two later.) So the truth is that bullet placement isn't all that counts in a gunfight. It is only one third of the triad which also includes appropriate bullet design and bullet caliber. You have to not only make a hole, but the hole has to be big enough, deep enough, and it has to stay open and not seal up. And I'm not trying to ignite another caliber war here. Although I have often stated my preference for .45 ACP, I also own and frequently carry a 9mm because it is small, light, and pockets easily. But unlike that store clerk at Gerlachs Drive Through Liquor Store in Pasadena California, I keep mine stoked with Corbon +P 115 grain DPX, which I think is a good choice to balance the caliber/bullet design parts of the triad, which relate to size and depth of the hole, as long as I do my part with placement to satisfy the third part of the triad.
These principles apply whether you are carrying a smaller 9mm, or a larger .45 (or any other caliber). Placement, depth of the hole, permanent diameter of the hole.
Now here's what's interesting to me about the above mentioned liquor store robbery attempt.....the guy who was shot in the heart had an accomplice who was also shot, with the same gun. He saw his partner go down and saw the gun swing to bear on himself. (They had walked in, waving .38 snubbie, and announced that this was a stickup. The clerk immediately reached under the counter top and came up with his 9mm and started firing immediately.) When the accomplice saw the 9mm come to bear on himself, he put his crossed forearms up in front of himself in a sort of "blocking" gesture and took a step backwards. The bullet that hit him broke both of his crossed wrists and hit him in the right aspect of his left pectoral muscle and stopped up against one of his ribs.....right over his heart. He was brought to our ER at the same time as the other guy. I helped to dig that bullet out of him for the police to use as evidence. I will credit the clerk with pretty decent shooting considering the adrenaline dump and the suddenness and mental shock of the moment and that he shot two men in a matter of a few seconds, hitting both right in the perfect spot for a heart shot.
Even so we have two guys, shot with the same gun, using the same FMJ ammo. The first guy is hit twice, sustaining a broken humerus and a through and through of the chest including his heart. The second guy is hit once, sustaining two broken wrists and a shallow pectoral wound immediately over his heart. Both shot with a 9mm, which most people, including myself, consider to be an adequate defense caliber......except that they were hit with what was probably inexpensive practice FMJ ammo. The only thing that can be said about it, despite the clerk's spectacular shooting under pressure, is that they both gave up the fight. Neither was stopped because the 9mm is a death ray super cannon. Think about that when you strap on a .22/.25/.32......or even a .380 or a .38 Special, both of which are considered to be the sort of minimum standards in a self-defense caliber.
Placement of the hole, depth of the hole, permanent diameter of the hole. Those are the only things that count in disabling a predator. We should each make our carry decisions accordingly.
