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OldCurlyWolf wrote:TAM
For your edification, I do belong to a "church" with a membership of ONE, No Invitations for other members are even considered.

I don't have the problem you seem to attribute to those who despise organized religions, but that is your problem, not mine.

I strongly suggest that we drop this subject, on which I believe we will never agree to any degree, and limit our discussions to the rest of the world of subjects, on which we do have many agreements.

BTW, I am reasonably sure from your statements that your denominations is NOT NAZARENE. I know them much too well. If 10 of 100 will stop to help a passed out drunk, you will have found an exceptionally forgiving group of Nazarenes. And that is the primary denomination, to my knowledge, in Bethany.

OCW

Dude, I'm willing to drop it after I have completed this post, but you brought it up, not me. If you can't back up blanket statements like the one you made, castigating the character of a large group of people identified as "church-goers in general" you don't even know (you didn't specify a denomination in your original post), it's your problem, not mine, if it makes you look bad.

BTW, a "church of one" isn't a church:
Merriam-Webster online dictionary

Definition of CHURCH

1. a building for public and especially Christian worship
2. the clergy or officialdom of a religious body
3. often capitalized : a body or organization of religious believers: as
   1. : the whole body of Christians
   2. : denomination <the Presbyterian church>
   3. : congregation
4. a public divine worship <goes to church every Sunday>
5. the clerical profession <considered the church as a possible career>

You don't belong to a church. That's OK. It's certainly your choice and your right under the 1st Amendment. I'm offering a strong counter suggestion, and that is that you should watch your choice of words before lumping people together like that and making broad-brushed completely unsustainable statements that call into question the strength of character of religious people. If you don't want to go there, then don't go there. But don't think that you can go there and that I won't challenge the preposterousness of the assertion.

Have a nice day.

OldCurlyWolf wrote:

seamusTX wrote:Residents of a apartment complex in Bethany, Oklahoma (OK City area) ignored a man who was lying on the ground unconscious. One stated that he thought the man was drunk.

Police eventually were called hours later and found that the man had been shot in the head. He was brought to a hospital in critical condition.

http://newsok.com/bethany-shooting-vict ... le/3380442" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

Bethany is the home of Southern Nazarene University and a BIG church town. Probably has a 60+% population attending church on Sunday. And about 90% of them would not walk 5 feet to check on someone they thought was drunk or otherwise impaired. One reasons why I do not believe in churches. HYPOCRITES!!!

For what it's worth, I'm a worship leader and faithfully attend my church, and I don't believe in churches either. I believe in the reason for going to church....and that is to worship the most high God. I have to take issue with what you've said here. Who is it who ministers to the homeless, the drunk and downtrodden? Christian believers, that's who. Who brings food to those people, tries to find them medicine, shelter, and clothing? Christian believers, that's who. Who donates most or all of the money to pay for these services? Christian believers, that's who. I don't see any atheists down there in the trenches trying to help someone in dire need. I'm just sayin'.....

You've painted a whole lot of good people with a pretty broad brush, and I don't believe that you have a properly informed opinion when you say that 90% of the churchgoers in a given town wouldn't go 5 feet out of their way to try and help someone who is laying in the street. Sure, maybe some wouldn't, but my experience is the exact opposite of that, and the empirical evidence backs up my opinion. Your's is merely a justification for something that's bothering you, because you're angry at God about something. That's between you and Him.

Do churches have hypocrites in them? Sure they do. That doesn't mean that all churchgoers are hypocrites. Not even close. Churches also have alcoholics, sex addicts, and drug abusers in them—just like in the rest of the world—but that doesn't mean that 90% of church goers are alcoholics, sex addicts, and drug abusers. Why is that, you might ask, that sinners can be found in churches? It is because CHURCHES ARE ALSO HOSPITALS FOR SINNERS, NOT ONLY HOTELS FOR SAINTS! The Bible says that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23), and that includes both church-goers and non-churchgoers.

By your logic, you might as well never vote in another election, because government is full of hypocrites. You might as well never put your money in a bank, because some bank managers are hypocrites. Etc., etc., etc. Of COURSE some of them are. It's part of the human condition. But to say that 90% of churchgoers in a given town wouldn't walk 5 feet to see if someone laid out on the ground was OK or not, is not only a gross exaggeration, it's kind of a pathetic reason for not dealing with your own issues with God. Sorry. I have to call 'em like I see 'em. I most sincerely hope for the sake of your own spiritual health that you are able to resolve that anger at Him.

seamusTX wrote:Child abuse, neglect, and murder weren't exactly what I had in mind when I started this thread. Sad to say, those crimes are so common that they aren't news unless they are uniquely heinous.

Back in the 1990s, the Chicago Tribune printed a photo and brief account of every child that was intentionally killed in the city during the previous year. It went on for pages. Most were killed by mothers' "boyfriends" or other household or family members. Most were killed by beating, asphyxiation, or other hands-on violence. A few were killed by starvation, thirst, or other neglect. It was heartbreaking.

Also the average actual prison time served by killers of children was in the range of three years—less than they would have served for selling dope.

I once did CPR on a 6 year old child whose parents brought him. He had been dead long enough that rigor mortis had already set in, but CPR was already started as we lifted him out of the car onto the gurney, in the ambulance bay. We had to continue for 2 or 3 minutes until we got him into a trauma room and a doctor could call an end to resuscitation and call the time of death.

He had been beating with a belt, and most of the skin and flesh had been stripped off his back. He died slowly. As I was helping lift the poor kid out of the car, I and several of my coworkers heard the step father confess that "he done something wrong earlier today, and I whupped him for it....now he won't wake up." I kept getting subpoenas to the step father's trial, which kept getting continuations. He finally plead guilty and it went straight to sentencing. He got five years of prison. The boy's mother got 2 years of probation.

No sir. You do that, and you don't get to plead ignorance or anything like that. On Planet TAM, men like that go straight to the hangman.

No more ER work for me. After 5-6 years of that, I've done my time.

seamusTX wrote:At least they left their kids in a hospital.

Tuesday around 3 a.m., near Sweetwater (Abilene area), a 22-year-old sperm donor threw his 4-year-old son into a stand of cactus at the side of I-20.

The boy was rescued by a citizen and had some 500 cactus spines removed.

The "father" claimed to have a religious revelation. He is facing felony charges.

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/j ... left-on-i/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

I saw that on the local news last night, and I thought about this thread.

Just work in an ER for a while. You'll see enough examples of callous disregard to last you a life—particularly toward children and the elderly.