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seeker_two wrote:OK, feel free to flame away.....

You make some good points... But when was the last time you had to fire from horseback?

My reasoning against Condition 2 is that, while it is better than Condition 1 at preventing a negligent pull of the trigger fron discharging, it is even more prone to accidental discharge than Condition 1. With the hammer cocked as in 1, the top-back of the grip protects the hammer from virtually all contact with the ground. Condition 2 does not have that protection, and the hammer can transfer energy to the firing pin if dropped upon it, with a loaded cartridge on the business end of the pin. In addition, to keep your right-hand grip on the weapon the gun must be cocked two-handed, and cocking the gun one-handed loosens your grip and can be slow making it, in most practical terms, equal to Condition 3 in terms of the speed of readying the gun, but Condition 3 largely prevents all negligent AND accidental discharges while being quick to ready two-handed.

This is all academic to me; I've already said I prefer TDAs, where Condition 2 is a fireable state that requires a conscious (10-20lbs) pull of the trigger. Condition 1 is actually not possible with my main carry weapon (Ruger decocking safety; it must be cocked OR locked, can't be both). Condition 2+safety is as safe as a loaded chambered weapon is possible to be, and yet operation is exactly the same as Condition 1 on a SA.

txinvestigator wrote:The thumb safety on a 1911 is NOT a substitute for safe gun handling.

I agree totally, and the UD I saw was a violation of rule 4. Also, the 1911s I have where UD was imminent if it didn't happen were Series 1s; both granddads, who have *almost* ADed were in WWII and have their service 1911s, with no trigger block and a weak interial firing pin, and the guy at the range who *did* AD had a WWII-era Colt Series 1. In all three cases the trigger could be pulled with no pressure on the grip safety, or only the pressure of the grip block's weight. All 3 were in fireable condition and therefore very valuable as-is, meaning replacing a worn grip spring would have decreased the value and wasn't done. More recent 1911s may assuade my misgivings but I have not yet shot one.

I did not, nor will you ever hear me advocate Condition 2 on a 1911, for the reasons that I and txinvestogator have both mentioned. I advocate Condition *3* which is safe even if you pull the damn trigger, but racking the slide brings it immediately to Condition 0. I advocate the same for HD shotguns; pulling the trigger will not fire the weapon even with the safety off, but rack the slide and you're ready for business.

Why is this a big deal? If I said I didn't like 1911s because I saw four of them fail explosively on the firing line, the fact that Browning had designed the gun not to blow up wouldn't persuade me to buy one. The fact that the failed guns were 50 years old and worn out does not mitigate my desire NOT to have a gun I can't always trust at all times to fire when I want and NOT fire at other times. What I carry is personal preference and if I prefer TDAs over SAs, it's my choice not to buy/carry an SA, and it's also my preference, if I were to carry an SA, to carry the way I want. I certainly am not trying to dissuade anyone else from carrying at all or carrying C&L; I am merely expressing my opinion on the matter, which, I believe, is what was originally solicited.

briggs wrote:Is the reason you do not carry with a loaded chamber because you are concerned with repercussions from an encounter, or that you are not entirely comfortable with carrying a loaded pistol?

If it is the first, only you can work that out. If it is the second, perhaps some training.

If this was directed at me, note that I only applied this to 1911s. This is based on a few experiences I've had with them where the safety had been nudged off, and cocked and locked became condition zero without any knowledge of such by the handler. The only UD I've seen that wasn't complete and utter user idiocy happened on a 1911 where the safety was nudged off.

Condition 3 is NOT unsafe. Condition 2 is the unsafe mode; hammer down on a chambered round, safety ON. In that condition on a SA 1911 not only do you have to cock the hammer, but without a trigger block a dropped gun can discharge. In Condition 3 all you have to do is rack the slide. If you don't have time to do that you're probably not going to get a shot off anyway.

Like I said, I'm perfectly comfortable carrying a chambered DA pistol. I quite simply, from experience, do not trust 1911 safeties. That's a personal thing, and you will probably not convince me otherwise.

Actually, a Glock has three safties:
1. Trigger Safety
2. Firing Pin Safety
3. Drop Safety

I should have been clearer; a Glock has no MANUAL safety. There are integral safeties that, as the rest of my sentence you quoted says, make Glocks VERY safe to carry chambered, and if I liked Glocks I'd have no qualms carrying one. Just not a fan of the feel.

It all depends on the type of pistol. I personally would not carry a 1911 condition 1 (cocked and locked), meaning the next-fastest, next-safest mode is condition 3 (hammer down on empty chamber, safety off). Rack the slide and you're at condition zero.

On a double-action, I'd chamber. I have a Ruger P95 I OC around the house, and when in the holster it's loaded, chambered, hammer down, safety on. The safety is reversed from a 1911's (up->fire) but as it was my first pistol I am very familiar with it, and you thumb off, pull the trigger and it goes BANG. Same if there is no safety, like a Glock; there are plenty of safety mechanisms in that gun that I'd have no reservations carrying chambered (I however do not care for Glocks in general, I find issue with the square grip, bracket sights and impossible slide release).