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Heartland Patriot wrote:

Carry-a-Kimber wrote:

Heartland Patriot wrote:
From what I gather (I haven't done a lot of research on this) they don't just drink it. They use it to "cook" something up...not sure how...

Nah, it isn't cooked, just mixed with a soft drink (sweet tea, Sprite, Mountain Dew, etc.) and consumed. People have been abusing codeine, hydrocodone, promethazine, and chlorpheniramine for decades but the use in popular Hip Hop culture started in Houston in the 1990's with the popularization of "Screw" style rap. In 2000 a popular rap song "Sippin' on Some Syrup" brought the use of "lean" out of the South and gave it national notoriety. Houston dj "DJ Screw" died of an overdose on the concoction of cough syrup and alcohol shortly after it become popularized nationally. Several other rappers have had similar fates including Port Arthur native Pimp C of UGK and Houston rapper Big Moe. While rapped about and used extensively in the Hip Hop community, it is still most popular in the South.

I stand corrected and educated on the subject. Strangely enough, I heard that rap track "Sippin' on Some Syrup" a long time ago...the word syrup sounds like "siz-zurp". Not my thing, though, so I never followed that stuff. Drugs have killed big name rockers, not surprised they have killed rappers, too.

As far as the "cooking", it can be extracted from cough syrup to pure DXM. From what I've read, in small doses it's a mild sedative but in larger doses it's a disassociative, sort of like ketamine. I truly do not understand the appeal, but whatever. On the other hand most people interested in drinking cough syrup are too dumb/lazy to extract it

matriculated wrote: But we know several very important pieces for a fact (it's on tape), and those pieces rule out self-defense. You can't pursue somebody and claim you defended yourself. That's escalating, not de-escalating the situation.

Ok, this is where we clearly disagree and I guess I'll just accept that we do and move on. If I chase some one to ask them the time or to discuss the meaning of life and they attack me I believe I have a right to defend myself. You say that the fact that Zimmerman pursued Martin rules out any possibility that Zimmerman was acting in self defense when Martin was shot and I think that is wrong. It all depends on what happened and we don't know.

txmatt wrote: I don't know what to say to you other than you shouldn't be carrying a handgun.

I assure you the public is in no danger from me. Anyway, aren't I the one making the case that the guy should be punished for unjustified use of deadly force?

You said it was ok to attack someone who was following you. If you think it's ok to start a physical conflict because you are scared or angry or whatever then you are unfit to carry a weapon for self defense.

you said:

Sure, after all this Martin could have turned around and attacked Zimmerman. But is it really an "attack" at that point?

The answer is, yes, if you turn around and physically attack someone who is simply following you then it is an attack and you are the aggressor. Again, Zimmerman may well have done something to warrant Martin defending himself (for instance, charging Martin, trying to physically detain him, etc) but we don't know that yet

matriculated wrote:By the way:

txmatt wrote:I don't think there is anything illegal about following someone...

Ok, good so far...

txmatt wrote:...which is all we know that Zimmerman did at this point.

Well besides the shooting and killing part, yea.
Following someone isn't against the law, but looking at the entire context is useful.

Ok, let me be more clear: the only thing we know that Zimmerman did to escalate/instigate the conflict was following Martin. What happened between that and the point that Martin was shot makes all the difference in the world

matriculated wrote:

txmatt wrote:Where do you get a confession of a crime out of the recording of the call? I don't think there is anything illegal about following someone which is all we know that Zimmerman did at this point. Everything else is purely speculation.

For all we know Zimmerman followed this kid (bad idea obviously, but almost certainly not illegal) and Martin attacked Zimmerman leading to ZImmerman defending himself. But we don't know, which is key here. The police should finish their investigation and I think everyone needs to calm down and let them do this

If you want to claim self-defense after shooting and killing someone, engaging in behaviors that escalate the situation does not help your case. Exiting the car to follow your future victim doesn't help your case. Continuing to follow after being advised by the PD not to doesn't help your case. Chasing after your victim when he starts running from you doesn't help your case. Sure, after all this Martin could have turned around and attacked Zimmerman. But is it really an "attack" at that point? It sounds more like self-defense to me. If you instigated the whole thing with your prior actions, then you can't claim self-defense.

If you think it's ok to physically attack someone who is following you and asking you questions, I don't know what to say to you other than you shouldn't be carrying a handgun. Again, we don't know what happened but to say that it would be ok for Martin to attack Zimmerman under that scenario is clearly wrong.

Zimmerman made a lot of mistakes, no one is contradicting that. I'm sure he is well, well aware of that now, and hopefully others can take a lesson from this

matriculated wrote:

rubio wrote:Maybe it should be locked if he keeps bashing the cops. As if he knows more about the shooting than they do.

Show me where I "bashed" the cops and I'll give you a

Sanford PD is wrong on this one. <-- Not bashing. Expressing an opinion on the topic at hand.

We have a taped confession of a crime in the form of Zimmerman's call to the Sanford PD, yet the man is still out and walking around free.

Where do you get a confession of a crime out of the recording of the call? I don't think there is anything illegal about following someone which is all we know that Zimmerman did at this point. Everything else is purely speculation.

For all we know Zimmerman followed this kid (bad idea obviously, but almost certainly not illegal) and Martin attacked Zimmerman leading to ZImmerman defending himself. But we don't know, which is key here. The police should finish their investigation and I think everyone needs to calm down and let them do this