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C-dub wrote: ↑Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:03 pm Does not apply would seem to be stronger, no?

jordanmills wrote: ↑Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:03 pm

ScottDLS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:16 am

Pawpaw wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:44 am If it's a 51% location, it doesn't matter whether they post the sign or not.

According to PC §46.035:

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed or carried in a shoulder or belt holster, on or about the license holder’s person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

So even without a sign, carrying in a 51% location is illegal.

Technically if they do not post, you have a defense to prosecution. In my view that means it's not illegal. That is unless you consider carrying anywhere WITH LTC illegal, since 46.15 is ruled only a Defense to 46.02.

That's not correct. The wording used is "does not apply to". The word "defense" does not appear in 46.15.

Sec. 2.02. EXCEPTION. (a) An exception to an offense in this code is so labeled by the phrase: "It is an exception to the application of . . . ."
(b) The prosecuting attorney must negate the existence of an exception in the accusation charging commission of the offense and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant or defendant's conduct does not fall within the exception.
(c) This section does not affect exceptions applicable to offenses enacted prior to the effective date of this code.

C-dub wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:32 pm

ScottDLS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:51 pmIt is correct that if a non-51% location is (wrongly) posted 51%, you may carry.

We agree on this.

ScottDLS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:51 pmI was saying Paw-Paw was mistaken.

ScottDLS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:51 pmNo I'm saying that it is NOT illegal to carry in a 51% location if they are not properly posted.

I Disagree. This is what Pawpaw was saying. It is still illegal and I mentioned that the lack of a sign or properly posted sign is only a defense to prosecution.

If I'm still misunderstanding your position I apologize. My allergies are bugging me tonight and they are becoming quite irritating.

C-dub wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:58 pm

ScottDLS wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:23 pm

oohrah wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:56 am

Pawpaw wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:44 am If it's a 51% location, it doesn't matter whether they post the sign or not.

According to PC §46.035:

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed or carried in a shoulder or belt holster, on or about the license holder’s person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

So even without a sign, carrying in a 51% location is illegal.

True, and oddly, if an invalid 51% is posted, it's not illegal to carry past it (but I wouldn't want to have that discussion).

Technically not true. See my earlier post.

What? Re-read what oohrah said again please. Although oddly phrased I think what he is saying is correct.

If a non-51% business puts up the 51% sign that doesn't make it illegal to carry past it, right? Or are you saying it is illegal even though the business does not meet the 51% requirements?

oohrah wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:56 am

Pawpaw wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:44 am If it's a 51% location, it doesn't matter whether they post the sign or not.

According to PC §46.035:

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed or carried in a shoulder or belt holster, on or about the license holder’s person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

So even without a sign, carrying in a 51% location is illegal.

True, and oddly, if an invalid 51% is posted, it's not illegal to carry past it (but I wouldn't want to have that discussion).

Pawpaw wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:44 am If it's a 51% location, it doesn't matter whether they post the sign or not.

According to PC §46.035:

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed or carried in a shoulder or belt holster, on or about the license holder’s person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

So even without a sign, carrying in a 51% location is illegal.