TexasCHLforum.com

Soccerdad1995 wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

C-dub wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:

rotor wrote:Don't you want the legal right to tell anyone to "get off my property"?

I want the legal right to tell an off duty cop to get off my property for carrying, but I don't have it.

Why not? If a manager at a Whataburger can tell an ON-duty LEO in uniform that they don't allow guns in their store and that they refuse them service, why can't you tell an off-duty one to leave?

TPC §30.05 was amended to exclude LEO's, if the basis for barring their entry is that they are carrying a handgun. This applies whether the LEO was on duty or off. It's absurd, but it's the law. While a burger joint can refuse service, there's no legal basis to order the officer off of the property.

Chas.

TPC §30.05(i) wrote:(i) This section does not apply if:

(1) the basis on which entry on the property or land or in the building was forbidden is that entry with a handgun or other weapon was forbidden; and

(2) the actor at the time of the offense was a peace officer, including a commissioned peace officer of a recognized state, or a special investigator under Article 2.122, Code of Criminal Procedure, regardless of whether the peace officer or special investigator was engaged in the actual discharge of an official duty while carrying the weapon.

But that only protects the LEO if the reason for asking them to leave is their weapon, correct? Someone could still order them off the property and just not give a reason, couldn't they?

K.Mooneyham wrote:

LucasMcCain wrote:

K.Mooneyham wrote:So, let me get this correct here: property rights in Texas are important, and folks who own property should be able to ask others to leave if the conduct of the other individual bothers the property owner? So, if I own a store, and a guy comes in sagging his pants down past his underwear, it's okay for me to ask him to leave? And if he refuses, it's okay for me to call the police and they will aid me in getting the sag pants guy to leave?

To the very best of my understanding, yes. You can refuse service to anyone, and you can request that anyone leave your property for just about any reason you see fit. There are exceptions, but dress code is not one of them. If they refuse to leave when told to, they are trespassing. If I'm wrong or missing something, I'm sure someone will correct me here in a minute.

Alright, I can ASK them to leave for something like that. Can I post an enforceable sign stating something like "No Sagging of pants/no visible underwear"? By enforceable, I mean, can I immediately call police if someone in comes with their underwear showing, after passing the sign, and that person will get in trouble for it? I'm trying to make a point here, nothing personal intended toward anyone in the least.

Soccerdad1995 wrote:I may want to have the absolute right as a property owner to say what can and cannot happen on my property. But unfortunately, that is far from reality. The reality is that we all have rights. And that includes people you have invited to visit your property. You do not surrender your fundamental rights and freedoms just because you want to buy something in a store, and I think that is a good thing.

We need to balance the rights of property owners to control what happens on their property against the rights of any visitors who might come onto that property. Personally, I think that giving property owners the right to ask anyone they choose to leave is a good balance. If I am bothering you or other people, and you own the property, then by all means tell me to leave. If I refuse, then have me arrested. This gives you as the property owner all the rights that you could reasonably want or expect. If you don't want any visitors, fine. Post a sign making that wish clear. If you only want specific people to visit, then give them explicit permission to ignore your "no trespassing" sign. But if you want to put out a general invitation for the public at large to visit your store, then you need to respect the rights of those people. You're not the only one who matters.

Allowing property owners to use the arrest power of the state in denying a fundamental right to those who were invited onto their property is going too far, IMHO. And that is exactly what the current law allows.

KLB wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:

rotor wrote:Don't you want the legal right to tell anyone to "get off my property"?

I want the legal right to tell an off duty cop to get off my property for carrying, but I don't have it. I also want the right to tell my employees to take their guns in cars off my property (parking lot), but I don't have either.

Life is full of trade offs. The legislature struck a balance. It may not be the balance we would have chosen, but it's not inherently unreasonable.

rotor wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:

rotor wrote:Don't you want the legal right to tell anyone to "get off my property"?

I want the legal right to tell an off duty cop to get off my property for carrying, but I don't have it. I also want the right to tell my employees to take their guns in cars off my property (parking lot), but I don't have either.

I am not as legally gifted as you are but don't you have the legal right to tell a trespasser to get off your property? Even a off duty LEO not on official business that enters my ranch is trespassing and can be asked to get off my property. It is not the carry issue as much as it is the trespass issue.

rotor wrote:Don't you want the legal right to tell anyone to "get off my property"?