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Bryanmc wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:publicly open privately owned property...like a store open to the general public or a restaurant.

Not someone's house or private land not generally open to the public.

I think it would fall under the "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone". Property owners do not need to prove a reason to ask you to leave, all they need to do is ask you to leave. Refusal becomes a trespass.

Sure but we're talking about the moral question of is it right to enter a business that is improperly posted, while concealing. It's not trespass if it's not posted correctly. I might not "want" any Republicans entering my shop and I can even post a sign saying so, but I don't find it morally wrong for someone to ignore my prejudices. Now if they wear a McCain 2008 Shirt I can ask them to leave, but I still don't see how they're violating my "rights", especially if they keep their political preferences hidden.

publicly open privately owned property...like a store open to the general public or a restaurant.

Not someone's house or private land not generally open to the public.

chamberc wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:

bortaz wrote:

Ruark wrote: This might be splitting hairs, legally, and I don't know how far this would get with an LEO trying to bust you for carrying past it, but I just noticed these "split" signs appearing more and more frequently.

Why are you looking to get past the intent of the store owner? If they have the sign posted, you know their intent...they don't want you to carry there. Even if the sign is off by a half centimeter in size or one hue in color.

Maybe he's going to conceal and carry so he doesn't give a darn what the owner's intent is if it doesn't legally prohibit his entry...

Not respecting people's property rights (including a store owner), is despicable.

Why? What "right" does a publicly open property owner have to prohibit conduct (CC) that harms no one? What if the property owner puts up a circle slash elephant sign (no Republicans) would it be despicable for you to enter, while being a Republican? It might be a class B misdemeanor if the 1995 AG ruling on no guns signs applied.

Then lastly if a property owner can't go to the trouble to post the legally effective sign to prohibit concealed carry then why should I be morally responsible to discern his intent?

And I find it despicable that an operator of a publicly open business finds it necessary to limit my right to defend myself, so if not legally prohibited I will ignore their wishes and feel no moral compunction.

bortaz wrote:

Ruark wrote: This might be splitting hairs, legally, and I don't know how far this would get with an LEO trying to bust you for carrying past it, but I just noticed these "split" signs appearing more and more frequently.

Why are you looking to get past the intent of the store owner? If they have the sign posted, you know their intent...they don't want you to carry there. Even if the sign is off by a half centimeter in size or one hue in color.

Maybe he's going to conceal and carry so he doesn't give a darn what the owner's intent is if it doesn't legally prohibit his entry...

WildBill wrote:

TrueFlog wrote:

WildBill wrote:Yes, I think you are trying to split hairs. If it came down to the sign you would be busted. Of course IANAL or LEO or DA, etc.

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
- See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/txstatutes/ ... joTiK.dpuf

I think that depends on what "card or other document" means. To me, the context makes it clear that a sign is not a card. If it were, then there would be no need for section (c)(3)(B). Moreover, if a sign qualifies as a card, then no 30.06 sign would need the Spanish wording. And I think we can all agree that's not the case.

It says a "card or other document." Other document means anything that the words that are printed, engraved, etched, painted, drawn, written. etc.
It's really that simple. If any of you want to try to split hairs with LEOs, DAs or Lawyers, do so at your own peril.
They are must better at it than you. And they also get paid to do it. And you are the one that pays them to do it.

So is a sign in 4 point type, with no Spanish a "card or document" if it is not handed to you?