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Yes. There ARE accidental discharges. Not every unintended discharge is a result of negligence. They're not common, but they happen. Open bolt guns with worn sears... Hammer dropping after charging slide... Not ALWAYS preventable...

thetexan wrote:Agreed. But that traffic ticket doesn't make your defense attorney spend extra time and money producing evidence trying to prove the reasonableness of your decision to shoot to a jury who already has evidence that you do not obey the simplest of laws.

tex

The burden in criminal trial is on the prosecution, to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that you broke the law, not on you to prove you're innocent. So first the prosecution is going to have to prove that you broke the law by walking past the non-compliant sign. After your defense takes them apart on that, they'll be left with trying to overcome the presumption of justification in 9.31 and 9.32, for shooting the bad guy...That's after they couldn't even prove you violated the 30.06 law on a stupid class C.

If you're NOT speeding... and a drunk jumps out in front of your car and is killed.... and the DA charges you with murder, they're going to have to start with proving you guilty of speeding...THEN prove that that contributed to the homicide. Enough hypotheticals that I'm just going to ignore non compliant signs.

A non-traffic class c is a Criminal Class C unless you take the time and trouble to fight to make the business account to the same law you do and force the issue at court or appeal.

A traffic class C is a criminal class C too. A class C misdemeanor is a CRIME, whether it's for traffic, seat belt, trespass or watering your lawn on the wrong day.

You can represent yourself in Municipal or JP court if you want to "beat the rap". I don't want to pay $200 for a doing something legal...walking past a non-compliant 30.06, but I'm going to measure that against the likelihood of getting charged (low), getting arrested for a class C (rare), and the maximum fine for being unjustly prosecuted ($200). And you better believe I am going to waste the State's time asking for a jury trial if they waste my time by arresting me for a class C.

Why don't they matter? There is no legal difference between them and a 30.06? AFAIK there are no class C level assault offenses in Texas that would qualify as DV under federal law...they are all class B or higher. If the Lautenberg amendment can make DV a federal bar to gun ownership, there's nothing stopping a future congress from doing the same for speeding or seat belt.

thetexan wrote:It's only a class c misdemeanor is a dangerous way to think. That's a big deal really in LTC land.

tex

Why is it dangerous to think that being charged for a class C for something that isn't illegal (walk past non-compliant sign) is not a big deal? I've gotten busted for "running" a yellow light. Rather than fight, I paid my Town to make it go away (aka deferred adjudication).

dhoobler wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:I see what you are saying, but I refuse to compromise my rights because some court might make the wrong decision. It also helps that it's a class C. I'm not quite as willing to risk a felony.

It is only a class C misdemeanor, but it is still a conviction for a non-traffic offense. It still carries consequences beyond a $200 fine, including having to disclose it to a potential employer who may not share you opinion about gun ownership.

Here is something to think about. The 1968 GCA originally prohibited felons from buying guns. In 1996, the Lautenberg amendment extended that prohibition to any misdemeanor domestic violence conviction, including those where there was no physical confrontation. The Lautenberg amendment was applied retroactively. A lot of people, including some police officers, found themselves loosing their 2nd amendment rights, and in the case of police, their jobs. Many of these convictions were due to an ugly divorce that included filing bogus claims of DV to be used as leverage.

Who is to say that a future federal law won't extend the prohibition of gun purchasing/ownership to any "gun related offense". I am not willing to take that risk.

What is the legal difference in Texas between the crime (class C) of speeding and a class C 30.06 violation? Nothing.

There are some specific cases in 46.02 and 9.31 & 9.32, that treat them differently in applying legal justification, but in terms of a criminal "record" they are all the same. I'm not even sure if Texas maintains records of class C "convictions". I've spent some time searching the DPS criminal record database and not found any, other than when someone was arrested...which you can be for speeding.

In Texas speeding, seat belt violations, and stop sign "rolling" are CRIMES. And you have the right to a jury trial, if you want to force the State to prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If some future employer cares about them, or any other class C's then they are going to severely limit their employee pool. Their loss.

I don't drive 5 miles under the speed limit because I'm afraid of being busted by a badly calibrated radar and convicted by a crooked JP. Now if there was capital punishment for speeding, I probably would...

Carrying WITH a LTC is technically a DEFENSE to 46.02, a class A misdemeanor? Are you willing to risk CC with our current judiciary...I am.

I see what you are saying, but I refuse to compromise my rights because some court might make the wrong decision. It also helps that it's a class C. I'm not quite as willing to risk a felony.

dhoobler wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:

dhoobler wrote:Is there any case law where there was no prosecution or a conviction was overturned due to an invalid sign?

There was a Plano nurse that carried in a non-posted hospital and the DA didn't prosecute. If you do a decent job CC'ing it's highly unlikely it's ever going to court.

There is a difference between a non-posted location and a location that is posted with an invalid sign.

Legally there is not. Sign for "notice" are clearly defined in the law. Maybe this is why in the DPS statistics there have been no convictions on PC 30.06 in 18+ years, at least last time I looked. I'm not waiting for a judge to tell me I can do something that's already legal.

dhoobler wrote:Is there any case law where there was no prosecution or a conviction was overturned due to an invalid sign?

There was a Plano nurse that carried in a non-posted hospital and the DA didn't prosecute. If you do a decent job CC'ing it's highly unlikely it's ever going to court.