TexasCHLforum.com

Keith B wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:
A TABC blue notice or a 51% sign would hardly seem to qualify as notice. I don’t see anything in them prohibiting your entry. The are simply making note of the law regarding handguns. Weapon has a specific definition in PC chapter 46 and it doesn’t include long guns.

TPC 1.07 defines deadly weapon

(17) "Deadly weapon" means:

(A) a firearm or anything manifestly designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting death or serious bodily injury; or

(B) anything that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury.

So, it is in the general provisions and would apply to TPC 30.05 on notice. I believe that it is notice that entry is forbidden with a weapon.

At this point, I am done with this topic and stand by my position until a court or AG decision shows differently.

And in section 46.01 which is in the chapter laying out the penalty for violating a 51% sign “weapon”, not “deadly weapon” is defined as a handgun, club, illegal knife, etc. The 51% sign does not say firearm, or deadly weapon, it says weapon. It also does not indicate your entry to the property is forbidden as required by 30.05 criminal trespass, it simply complies with the posting requirements for TABC licensees. You are committing no crime by carrying a rifle In licensed premises whether red or blue, unless the owner makes you aware your entry or continued presence is forbidden as required by 30.05.

Keith B wrote:

ScottDLS wrote:

Keith B wrote:

Nutcracker wrote:
Whether they really are 51% or not, the TABC license determines if it's legal for the good guys to carry there. Well, legal to carry handguns, since carrying a rifle or a shotgun is not a crime in 51% establishments. So that's what I do.

I sure hope you are not carrying a rifle or shotgun into a 51% location, as that is a felony to carry a weapon (not handgun) into one.



Also, carrying an unlicensed weapon, meaning one that you can't get a license to carry (handgun), in a non-51% location is also a felony per TABC, but really it's a crime if they allow you to stay on premise with one.

No actually it’s not illegal to carry a concealed rifle into a 51% location. It’s against tabc rules for the bar, but not illegal.

If there is notice, then it would be a 30,05 violation.

A TABC blue notice or a 51% sign would hardly seem to qualify as notice. I don’t see anything in them prohibiting your entry. The are simply making note of the law regarding handguns. Weapon has a specific definition in PC chapter 46 and it doesn’t include long guns.

Keith B wrote:

Nutcracker wrote:
Whether they really are 51% or not, the TABC license determines if it's legal for the good guys to carry there. Well, legal to carry handguns, since carrying a rifle or a shotgun is not a crime in 51% establishments. So that's what I do.

I sure hope you are not carrying a rifle or shotgun into a 51% location, as that is a felony to carry a weapon (not handgun) into one.



Also, carrying an unlicensed weapon, meaning one that you can't get a license to carry (handgun), in a non-51% location is also a felony per TABC, but really it's a crime if they allow you to stay on premise with one.

No actually it’s not illegal to carry a concealed rifle into a 51% location. It’s against tabc rules for the bar, but not illegal.

Keith B wrote:
....
While you are technically correct, one thing to remember is this is a 'defense to prosecution', but not a guarantee you won't be prosecuted. For example, if the prosecutor can convince the Judge or Jury that you well knew it was a 51% location when you entered, even without the sign, then you could be in hot water and be convicted of carrying in a 51% establishment.

So, I would still be very cautious if you suspicion an establishment is 51% even without the sign unless you have proof it is not.

Two points.

First. Charles Cotton has said in a previous post that by case law all the 46.15 Non-Applicability Provisions are considered a "Defense to Prosecution" vs. an exception to the law. That means carrying at all with a CHL or even carry by a Peace Officer is a "only" Defense to Prosecution.

Second. The Defense provided under 46.035 can't be negated by proving that you "knew" it was a 51% location. The Defense is that you were not given effective notice under section GC 411.204 (by posting of a 51% sign). If you present evidence of your Defense at trial, the prosecution must prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that the Defense didn't exist.