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Skooter wrote:Gut punches, shin kicking or toe stomping aren’t life threatening. The person could have intended to walk over to you and spit on you or give you an “atomic wedgie”.

Yeah well, tell Houdini that a gut punch isn't deadly force. And for the record spitting has been considered as assault with a deadly weapon. All that said, it is not a requirement of the law, nor is it my moral obligation to rule out more benign intent before interpreting one's posture or actions. An "atomic wedgie" (which I assume was offered tongue in cheek) is something you get wrestling with your older cousin. If a stranger displays the anger and closes the distance between you, I am not going to defend myself. I am not going to worry whether he is posturing or intent on my destruction. I will stop him, whether that decision involves force or deadly force depends on a boat load of factors. But I tell you, as I age and my problems become more and more prominent, the hand to hand option becomes less viable.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

Beiruty wrote:Is the threat of beating someone is an assault? justifying producing a deadly weapon as a threat to terminate the threat of physical assault? Not sure in this scenario we CHLer can prematurely draw. Now if the assailant proceed to throw punch whether landed or otherwise, it is another story. Talking tough is just that talking tough and kind of verbal intimidation.

That's a good question. gigag04 told me in another thread a couple of months ago that producing your weapon in anticipation of needing it might be prosecutable as an "aggravated assault."

<SNIP>

That was quite the lively thread. One thing he taught me after much explaining, re-explaining and then explaining some more was the crime (aggravated assault) occurs. It is just in this case a legal justification in the law may nullify the crime, but it still occurred.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

drjoker wrote:Dude, carry pepper spray, it costs $5 or less and will save you from the legal headaches and costs of shooting an unarmed man. If the other guy is unarmed and you draw a gun. If he lunges for your gun and you shoot him, no matter how justified, you're going to be spending 6 figures on a defense attorney and get arrested. Not good.

I remember seeing some other dude on the open carry forum, Hank T's postulate goes something like this, "It is always bad form to shoot an unarmed man."

I have seen the effects of PCP up close and personal on a number of occasions. If the other guy is unarmed and he is "dusted," your pepper spray is going to be no more a deterrent than a shpritz of Old Spice aftershave. And if he gets his hands on you, he's going to tie your gun's barrel in a knot and stuff it where the sun don't shine - after he gets done caving you skull in with it.

Nope. Not for me. He lunges at me, he gets shot. A lot. End of story. I'll take my chances with law enforcement and the justice system.

I pulled up on a cop who was quickly losing the fight and had gone to retention mode whilst a PCP'd 6'6" gorilla (I am not exaggerating) was trying to tear him apart. I had to climb on (literally) and wrap my arms around a tree trunk that passed for a neck and threw my weight into the choke hold. After a few seconds he stands bolt upright and back we go. It hurt. The cop is standing there thanking me and all I could get out with the wind knocked out of me was, "Get him off!"

My partner had called in an assist officer which this cop hadn't had the chance to do and ran over with the flex cuffs and we proceeded to truss him up as backup was arriving. He was so big we had to call for an EMS SDO to take our stretcher to the hospital as we had to pull it out to get this tank in the back.

It's just one of many misadventures but it is enough to remind me that I agree with TAM, absolutely, completely, 100% and with out caveat.