TexasCHLforum.com

frankie_the_yankee wrote:"You and your gun have to leave now.", out you go or you're gonna get arrested.

Frankie,

That's exactly what we have all been saying! TPC 30.06 tells an owner how to enforce a no-weapons ban against CHLs. Once a 30.06 compliant notice is given..."out you go!"

Few rights are absolute. You can't yell, "FIRE" in a crowded theater, you can't carry a concealed weapon into certain locations, etc. Laws and regulations attempt to balance competing or conflicting rights.

Tom

Liberty wrote:We as CHL holders in Texas have a right to carry into and onto private property, until or unless we are informed by the terms of 30.06. We are under no obligation to be forth coming about our armed status when we enter private property.

This is my usual position. Once properly notified, we commit trespass if we fail to either leave the property or leave our weapon off the property. TPC 30.06 tells property owners how to enforce their rights.

Tom

hkshooter wrote:Very true, and I had forgotten about that.

But I like the way she thinks!

Tom

hkshooter wrote:Can a business suspend any of your other civil liberties on their property? Just because it's private property, they can't deny your civil rights. The only thing they can do is ask people to leave or not come in.

Since the charge for ignoring a valid 30.06 posting is trespassing, I'm led to believe that they are simply telling you not to come onto the property.

Tom

The Annoyed Man wrote:That leaves me with no other alternative but to be packing heat myself each time a stranger comes to the door, since I can apparently have no reasonable expectation that a stranger would offer me that information. The thought of it irks me.

Chris,

That really sums it up. It's the reason many of us carry in the first place. I doubt you would have anything to worry about with another CHL and the BGs will ignore your notice. Gun-Free Zones are really Victim-Rich Zones since the only ones who will be armed are the BGs.

Tom

Lucky45 wrote:I think you need to brush up on some reading of TX Laws. A man's house is his castle. You should not have to escape from your Castle. There is no requirement to retreat from your home.

Lucky,

I'm familiar with the law. Reread what I wrote. I said retreat was the "safest" course of action. I'm going to PM you some additional information.

Tom

The Annoyed Man wrote:Is any of what I'm saying here making any sense to you?

Chris,

This makes more sense now that you've told me about the weapon printing.

Asking all visitors (or posting signs) if they are carrying doesn't make any sense because the BGs are not going to care about your notice. It's the same argument we use against gun-free zones.

Asking about the weapon after you notice the printing is dangerous if he's really a BG. The safest choice is to escape. If your family is not in the house, leave and call the police.

Tom

The Annoyed Man wrote:Like I said, if someone doesn't like the rules in my home, don't come around. It's my home. If you can't respect that, then you are using your CHL to disrespect me in my own home. It might be lawful for you to do that, but it isn't right, and nothing you or anybody else can say about it is going to change my mind. I don't want people carrying inside my home without my permission for the same reason that you want to remain concealed carry outside my home - that you can't always trust the other guy to have your best interests in heart. When a stranger comes to my door, how do I know that he's got my best interests in heart? Until I know that, I would prefer that he not be armed. Can you see my logic?

Chris,

I don't have a problem with your thought process but how is anyone supposed to know? They can't read your mind.

I share your security concerns and I often answer my door with my hand on my weapon (small auto in a pocket holster) because you never know who is on the other side. I never let stangers in the door. If I need to talk, I go outside until I know who I'm dealing with.

When I visit friends and family I'm often armed. I never tell anyone and nobody has ever asked. If someone were to tell me they do not want weapons in their home, I would leave it in my vehicle.

I don't think we're far apart on this.

Tom

The Annoyed Man wrote:I am sorry if that sounds rude to you, but people who think they have rights in my home without my permission are being twice as rude as I am. On the day that you start paying MY mortgage, and MY property taxes; on the day that you assume responsibility for the protection of MY family, THEN you get to have a say in what goes on in MY home. As long as I pay for those things and the deed is in MY name, and the responsibility for protecting my home and its occupants is MY responsibility, then your right to exercise your RKBA without restriction ends at my private property line, unless I invite you to exercise them on my property.

Annoyed,

Wow! I'm not sure what brought this on. Do you carry outside your home? Do you have a CHL? Perhaps not. Paying your mortgage or bills does not factor into it and unless you give proper notice you can't exercise that right. Have you posted a 30.06 sign on your home yet?

I carry all the time and that includes into private homes. If they have a valid 30.06 sign or gave me verbal notice, I would respect their wishes and leave my weapon in my vehicle.

Tom

Lucky45 wrote:It will always be a legal issue, but let us put our money where our mouth is. Can you add a POLL to your original post and see what the general concensus is on the matter????

I created a new thread with a poll on the subject of non-compliant signs...

Tom

M9FAN wrote:I don't want to be the "test case" on this issue but I like your thinking, Tom.

I'm willing to go there. Even if arrested I highly doubt you would be charged. The law really is clear on this issue. Charles, your thoughts?

Tom

LedJedi wrote:If the letters are .05 of an inch too short, but it's posted in the correct locations it's close enough for me. Their intent is clear in that situation and I will respect it, talk to the owner and if needed, vote with my wallet.

To ignore their obvious intent is questionably legal at best, but worse it's immoral and contrary to the values our country was founded on by ignoring the rights of private property.

If you don't like a place being posted, do something about it, but don't ignore it.

Led,

You might decide to honor their wishes but you have no legal requirement to do so. That's your right. There's no question of legality and you should not try to imply there is one. Go read Texas 30.06. One could argue there is an ethical or moral duty to comply although many would not agree with you. The burden of providing proper notice lies with the property owner and not the CHL.

Property rights (and most others) are not unlimited. Cities have zoning and some owners must comply with CC&Rs (deed restrictions). These place restrictions on how an owner may use their property.

Often there are competing rights and the laws / regulations are designed to protect everybody to some extent. You have the right to free speach yet you cannot yell, "fire" in a crowded theater when no fire exists. I'd argue that Texas 30.06 attempts to balance both the rights of the property owner and the rights of the CHL to carry.

Personally, I'm not going to try to educate some corporate entity because you are not likely to change their opinion. I'm not opposed to talking to locals, but some corporation from NYC does not understand our culture and you cannot change their mindset (the mindset of their lawyers).

Living in the DFW area, I rarely see valid 30.06 signs and would prefer it stays that way. Your method is dangerous and can lead to greater restrictions rather than fewer. Deep down inside people don't care that we carry and some may even be thankful for it, but they don't want to hear about it or see it. I can live with that.

Tom

LedJedi wrote:I'm not going to get into the legality of size, contrast or placement as to me it's almost irrelevant.

I don't have a problem with the rights of private business or property owners. They do have the right to control their property.

30.06 tells them how to go about enforcing that right. If not, someone could argue that a tiny ghostbuster sign was effective notice. The law allows owners to exercise their right to control of their property while protecting CHLs.

There is no almost sign. It either complies or it does not. If the sign is correct, I will comply and either leave my weapon in the car or do business elsewhere. If not, I was not properly notified and will act accordingly.

Tom