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strogg

Wow. This event has turned from murky to super duper murky. Whatever little facts we knew could've ended up being false.

I am in agreement with others that it's not yet known whether he was the aggressor or acting in self defense. If he was purely acting in self defense against what was thought of as Mace as a precursor to imminent death, then he would have a defense. Or if he was open carrying, he may have a defense too (claiming the other person was spraying him with an irritant to procure his firearm). Regardless, he should be charged for acting as a security guard without the proper licensing. That is one thing (as of now) we have no doubts about.

As for the charge of murder 1, with what I can gather, it is possible. As facts become clearer and as the grand jury is presented with the evidence, it may be reduced. I don't know. But murder 1 is by no means a stretch. I'm curious to see where this heads.

strogg

It's interesting how there's so little information known despite the video. There are a ton of conjectures, but the only real facts we know are the following: someone discharged an irritant of some sort, the media-hired security guard fired the shot at that someone, and two guns were at the scene. We don't know what the irritant was (could be Mace, could be just OC spray), we don't know anyone's affiliation other than the security guard. We don't even know where the second gun came from. It could easily be the security guard's BUG.

As for "clearly hearing a gun being chambered," why would anyone carry a gun unloaded? Also, that sound, which isn't clear, can easily be a collapsible baton. There are plenty of those in the video.

strogg

https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/

Time says 93% of protests are peaceful. That means 7% are not. Over 99% of police interactions conclude peacefully. Less than 1% do not. It seems like Time literally just confirmed that hanging out with the police is at least 7x safer than hanging out with BLM activists. Hrm, is that the best they can spin it?

strogg

AndyC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:50 pm
C-dub wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:37 pm Wasn't handling it very well?

Looks like he handled it well enough.
Agreed - he wasn't waving it around, had his finger visibly off the trigger in every photo I saw and was pretty controlled when firing.

Maybe he just wasn't "operator" enough for the guy?

strogg

AndyC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:55 pm
strogg wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:46 pm
I'm not doubting that part. But did the kid use force to provoke the protester before the start of the video? That's what I'm getting at. Time in this universe didn't start when the video started. Things may have transpired before that. If the kid was the initial aggressor, then self defense is out the window.
Not according to a reporter who was there and gave a statement (published) to the police.

“Detective Cepress interviewed McGinnis and indicates the following: Before the shooting, McGinnis was interviewing the defendant. The defendant told McGinnis that he was a trained medic.”

McGinnis stated that he (McGinnis) “has handled many ARs and that the defendant was not handling the weapon very well. McGinnis said that as they were walking south another armed male who appeared to be in his 30s joined them and said he was there to protect the defendant. McGinnis stated that before the defendant reached the parking lot and ran across it, the defendant had moved from the middle of Sheridan Road to the sidewalk and that is when McGinnis saw a male (Rosenbaum) initially try to engage the defendant. McGinnis stated that as the defendant was walking Rosenbaum was trying to get closer to the defendant. When Rosenbaum advanced, the defendant did a ‘juke’ move and started running,” according to the complaint.

McGinnis stated that “there were other people that were moving very quickly. McGinnis stated that they were moving towards the defendant. McGinnis said that according to what he saw the defendant was trying to evade these individuals. McGinnis described the point where the defendant had reached the car.
Even if he had (short of shooting/assaulting someone, I suppose) he regains innocence if he's backing away from confrontation.

Thank you for filling in the gaps. If that is indeed true (I have no reason to doubt that as there is no one contradicting that statement), the first act of force was performed by a protester and not the kid. In which case, we are in agreement that the kid was acting in self defense from the start.

strogg

RoyGBiv wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:32 pm
strogg wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:44 pm
AndyC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:20 pm Just out of curiosity, I did a little digging:

Gaige P Grosskreutz - Milwaukee, WI - 40 miles from Kenosha (Bicep blowout guy)
Anthony Huber - Silver Lake, Wi - 20 miles from Kenosha (Skateboard guy)
Joseph Rosenbaum - Kenosha, WI (Headshot guy)

Kyle Rittenhouse - Antioch, IL - 21 miles from Kenosha

I'm not sure what the relevance is regarding distance traveled - but apparently it matters to those on the Left, so there you have it for perspective.
I think they're trying to defeat the self defense argument by saying the kid intended to incite trouble. Traveling 20 miles across state lines with a rifle may give that impression to some people. It's a whole lotta nothing at this point, but unfortunately, when you add up a whole lotta nothing, some people see a valid argument rather than an empty basket.

Regardless, this case is not as clear cut as it may seem. As far as I know, there's no video evidence that shows how the altercations first started. We are only assuming that it started when the protester fired his first shot. We don't know what happened before that. We don't know for sure who showed a use of force first. I believe it's for that reason the kid is being charged. If he can prove that the protesters were the initial forceful aggressors, then the case will die in court. We will see.
There is clear video evidence showing the kid running away, a gunshot (not his) and the guy following him throwing something at him ....

I'm not doubting that part. But did the kid use force to provoke the protester before the start of the video? That's what I'm getting at. Time in this universe didn't start when the video started. Things may have transpired before that. If the kid was the initial aggressor, then self defense is out the window. I am in no way condoning the guilt of the kid. In all honesty, I hope he didn't start the altercation. But I can't say he's not guilty of the accused crimes until I am certain of the whole story.

strogg

AndyC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:20 pm Just out of curiosity, I did a little digging:

Gaige P Grosskreutz - Milwaukee, WI - 40 miles from Kenosha (Bicep blowout guy)
Anthony Huber - Silver Lake, Wi - 20 miles from Kenosha (Skateboard guy)
Joseph Rosenbaum - Kenosha, WI (Headshot guy)

Kyle Rittenhouse - Antioch, IL - 21 miles from Kenosha

I'm not sure what the relevance is regarding distance traveled - but apparently it matters to those on the Left, so there you have it for perspective.

I think they're trying to defeat the self defense argument by saying the kid intended to incite trouble. Traveling 20 miles across state lines with a rifle may give that impression to some people. It's a whole lotta nothing at this point, but unfortunately, when you add up a whole lotta nothing, some people see a valid argument rather than an empty basket.

Regardless, this case is not as clear cut as it may seem. As far as I know, there's no video evidence that shows how the altercations first started. We are only assuming that it started when the protester fired his first shot. We don't know what happened before that. We don't know for sure who showed a use of force first. I believe it's for that reason the kid is being charged. If he can prove that the protesters were the initial forceful aggressors, then the case will die in court. We will see.

strogg

strogg

Paladin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:02 pm Well worth reading the ENTIRE thing:

UC Berkeley History Professor's Open Letter Against BLM, Police Brutality and Cultural Orthodoxy

We are the useful idiots of the wealthiest classes...We are training leaders who intend, explicitly, to destroy one of the only truly successful ethnically diverse societies in modern history...

That is one insanely well-written letter. Absolutely amazing. Unfortunately, the author will be doxed and a lynch mob will be at his doorstep within a week. As a non-white person myself, I can attest to his treatment by the Californians that forced him into a box based on his skin color. The racism by the lefties is the primary driver of my departure from California. Apparently, they are not accepting of my views or the way I like to live my life. Shame.

Here is a video that complements what is being said in the letter and also mirrors my views in the situation:

strogg

TreyHouston wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:22 pm
parabelum wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:50 am
Grayling813 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:45 am
parabelum wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 11:44 am This ain’t looking good so far for Trump and for our Nation. Those filthy Lib rats have indoctrinated so many young minds, and forced some of the largest companies to take a knee. Not good.
I bow my knee to no man, no agenda. My knees bow only to Christ.
Amen Sir.
I am very concerned that at this point if the election was held, Biden would likely win. Sorry for the slight topic derailment.
The more crazy The left gets the last vocal the right is. So if your phone rings in the middle of the day someone says they’re taking a survey. You don’t know who they are and they start asking if you support trump. What would you say? Who knows who they are?

What if there’s a booth in the mall and they’re asking people walking by who they would vote for. Same thing, you don’t know who they are

Agreed. I think of it like this. What which answer is the best answer for my personal safety and well-being? I would feel guilty if I answered Biden, but I would literally fear for my physical safety if I answered Trump. I think I'd rather live to vote for Trump, so I'd most likely answer Biden in those circumstances.

The same thing happens during campaign donations. By law, i have to put in my occupation and employer along with some personal information. Any contribution is public information. I actually hesitated for a while because I didn't want to lose my job if I got caught. But I decided to take the risk anyway. The risk is minimal, but the prospect of Trump losing is a far worse scenario.

Right now, though, I'm trying to find safe ways to get the word out to people so they can vote the right way. It is a heck of a battle, but it is more imperative than ever to fight for everyone's rights and freedoms.

strogg

striker55 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:17 am
Paladin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:00 am
philip964 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:22 pm https://www.nationalreview.com/news/the-cancel-counter/

Abolitionist statue vandalized.

Plus chronological list of vandalism and firings related to race in recent days.
Strongly support Trump to end this leftist reign of terror.
Totally agree, make America great! It's going to be a long time before normalcy again. In fact normal is going to be different.

Spread the word. I've already donated to his campaign. The last thing we need now is to have the true racists run this country again.

strogg

I wonder if the peaceful protesters are starting to understand the image problem that many law enforcement officers face. The vast majority of LEOs are good people. But every organization has their bad apples. There is just that super small bunch that tarnish and ruin the reputation of said LEOs. Unfortunately, that's what the nation is focused on right now, while the deeds of the good LEOs are going unnoticed. The protesters are in the exact same boat. The vast majority of them are good people as well. But their voices are being covered up by the bad apple looters and rioters that tarnish the protester's images. The same thing applies. The nation is focused on those bad apples and not the folks who are trying to promote justice for their social group.

I believe I can say the same applies to us gun owners as well.

strogg

Paladin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:29 am Many arrested on riot charges don't live in Dallas

Instead, they came from Bridgeport, Burleson, Denton, Fort Worth, Grand Prairie, Irving, Lewisville, Terrell, The Colony and Wichita Falls – even one from Knoxville, Tenn.
The riot's don't look spontaneous at all...

I'm not sure how the rioters coming from different parts of the greater DFW metroplex raises eyebrows. I'm certain most of the peaceful protesters showing up are also coming from far and wide. I just don't see the relevance.

But I agree, the riots are definitely not spontaneous. To make it worse, it is being encouraged by many left wing activists through vocal approvals and bail charity. It is also being glorified by the MSM who, in my opinion, were the ones who fueled the fire to begin with.

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