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mojo84 wrote:Hopefully TABC will update their rules because they would not have to wait to get a conviction in order to suspend or terminate a permit. In addition to the legal fees to appeal such an action by TABC, the retailer would lose revenue from not being able to sell alcohol during the appeal process.

There is enough uncertainty involved in this situation I am no ready to say Wal-Mart is copping-out.

I use the same argument about cops checking stopping and checking for an LTC. I just think this is different since a government entity with significant power makes and enforces their rules.

Yeah, I know there could possibly be an issue with an overzealous TABC agent wanting to be a jerk because their rules have not been properly updated. However, I think it is way overboard for any business to say they have to check your license or post 30.07 signs just to keep someone from openly carrying into their business because they MIGHT not have a concealed carry license and be carrying illegally and they were allowing them to stay in the business.

mojo84 wrote:

Keith B wrote:I believe the 'well, we have to make sure the person is legal' is a cop-out. Since open carry is legal, even though it requires a license, then no one should have reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally openly carrying a handgun. If there is probable cause to indicate the person may not be legal, then they can ask the person to leave, OR, they can call the police and advise why they feel this person needs to be checked out. TABC needs to accept that a licensee shouldn't have to confront someone who is more than likely legally carrying openly.

Keith, Respectfuly, it is not a cop-out on the part of Wal-Mart until TABC changes their rules. I am not a huge fan of Wal-Mart. However, I see their point. They are a big visible target. Until TABC changes their rules, we should look to them as being the one causing this issue. We all have to realize the TABC rules were put in place long before open carry came along. Until they change the rules, Wal-Mart and other retailers have too much at risk not to follow the rules.

Maybe Steve Rothstein can shed some light on this and let us know how much of a concern it should be for Wal-Mart and what are the chances TABC will update their rules.

I disagree. The reason being the onus in carrying an unlicensed handgun into an establishment that sells alcohol for off-premise consumption is on the carrier. If they are carrying illegally, then they will be charged for UCW under 46.02. Due to the fact that open carry IS legal with a license, TABC would have a really hard time in convicting a business for allowing someone who is open carrying to stay in their establishment, unless there were substantiating issues that indicated the individual was not legally carrying. It's no different than you driving through a car wash and them asking to see your drivers license because you are operating a motor vehicle. There is no reason to believe the person is not legal, and touting that they could lose their license due to it is a stretch.

And yes, I know what TABC rules say, but they are now superseded by the new open carry law, so they have to adapt to the fact that it will be happening and a licensee cannot be required to try and validate every person that might come in openly carrying a handgun.

I believe the 'well, we have to make sure the person is legal' is a cop-out. Since open carry is legal, even though it requires a license, then no one should have reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally openly carrying a handgun. If there is probable cause to indicate the person may not be legal, then they can ask the person to leave, OR, they can call the police and advise why they feel this person needs to be checked out. TABC needs to accept that a licensee shouldn't have to confront someone who is more than likely legally carrying openly.