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WildBill wrote:

Keith B wrote:I participated in a realistic tornado drill when I was in Jr. High school. They bandaged about 100 of us and sent us to the two local hospitals. I had a piece of sheet metal protruding from my side. When I got to the hospital I was to be in shock and unable to speak. The Dr. kept asking me what was wrong with me instead of reading the tag. I finally had to point to the tag to show him I was unable to speak due to severe shock. He looked kinda put out, looked at the location of the metal and said 'Well, that is into his spleen and he's not gonna make it'. I said 'Well, gee, thanks for nothing Doc!' and he just walked off.

Sorry Keith, but this is hilarious.

The other thing was I knew the Doctor very well and thought at least he would have given a little extra effort to save me.

I agree we are at am impasse jmra, but that is OK. I am like mojo84 and do agree this level of drill should not be done wiht whole student body during school hours. Some kids would not faare well mentally from the drill. Using Explorers from a LEO post or high school kids who want to volunteer with their parents permission (as they did in this case) I see as fine. If the kid or parent doesn't want them to participate, they don't have to.

I participated in a realistic tornado drill when I was in Jr. High school. They bandaged about 100 of us and sent us to the two local hospitals. I had a piece of sheet metal protruding from my side. When I got to the hospital I was to be in shock and unable to speak. The Dr. kept asking me what was wrong with me instead of reading the tag. I finally had to point to the tag to show him I was unable to speak due to severe shock. He looked kinda put out, looked at the location of the metal and said 'Well, that is into his spleen and he's not gonna make it'. I said 'Well, gee, thanks for nothing Doc!' and he just walked off. What it did though was enlighten me to the fact that you may not be able to survive after an incident for various reasons and you need to look for ways ot protect yourself because others may not be willing or able to. I think that is what this active shooter drill there did for many of those kids that participated. In my drill, I did at least make the front page of the local newspaper though.

Done with this thread now.

jmra wrote: No and yes. (I don't really understand what being a firearms instructor has to do with the discussion. But I have been involved with live fire drills both in the military and civilian life.)
I work with kids everyday both gen ed and special ed. I believe I have a pretty good understanding of how the teenager mind works.
I never questioned the value of these drills from an administration or first responder standpoint. I strongly question the involvement of children. But that is simply my opinion based on my years of experience in working with children. IMHO, the downside is much greater than the upside. Of course my kids don't play video games where the object of the game is to shoot people either, so maybe I'm just overprotective.

Being an instructor plays into it because of the way you would introduce the drill and explain it to the teens and other participants. Many times how you go approach a drill or tactic training will prepare and set the understanding of the participants as to the kind of thing they will be facing.

And, while I agree this should not be an across the board type of activity, I think any high school teen that wants to participate, and their parents sign the release, should be involved. They have interest and they can see what it's all about. And letting kids play active shooter video games is fine, as long as they have an understanding of what is real, what is fantasy and where the lines really exist. Some kids are much more mature than others and each one has to be allowed to do things at the maturity level that are at within reason.)

jmra wrote:

Keith B wrote:

jmra wrote:

mojo84 wrote:I understand. When our guys did it, there were very few teachers, some administrators and the only kids were from the local explorer post my son is in.

That sounds like a much better plan.

What's the difference with Explorer kids and high school kids that volunteer? Nothing.

I would have opted to not have any kids, but if it was absolutely necessary for the drill at least the explorer kids are interested in a career in law enforcement.

Who said it was a law enforcement explorer post? I know that it is, but who is to say these kids that volunteered aren't interested in law enforcement too?

jmra wrote:

CHLLady wrote:I think it's a fantastic idea, as long as everyone participating knew it was a drill in adavance. I believe this is good for the students to hear what gun shots sound like in a school environment, so that they KNOW what they're hearing if it does happen. Too many times people freeze and try and rationalize what they thought they heard, some say firecrackers, a desk dropping, etc. People come up with weird ideas. If this can get them to react faster instead of freezing, then why not? In this training, they can use it in other situations such as movie theater or the mall. They are not going to be traumatized, they've seen worse in scary movies or on The Walking Dead, or in their video games.

I believe in teaching my kids about school safety and what to do in case... We've discussed this often. Kids need this training. Not all parents teach or expose their kids to gun safety & shooting, as most of us have taught our own. Our kids know what gun shots sound like. It's always better to be prepared.

I totally disagree. First of all the "guns" used in the video sound nothing like real guns. Secondly, getting a school full of kids, 750 in my case, to take any kind of drill seriously is next to impossible. Thirdly, there is absolutely no way you are going to get 10% of the parents to consent to allowing their kids to participate in this type of drill which negates any possibility of the general school population benefiting from the drill. Lastly, like I stated previously, some teenagers would take from this experience that their only chance of surviving an actual experience would be to carry "protection".
There is absolutely nothing to be gained in having children participate in a drill where they all die. In fact the drill is likely to make them panic more in a real event. Involving children on any large scale is just a bad idea.

Have you ever been a firearms instructor or trainer? Have you ever participated in a live fire drill? Unless you have been involved, then you don't understand the fact of how these drills show vulnerabilities and that you can't freeze when you are involved, even if that means ducking for cover. These kids that volunteered to participate will now know that when they hear this to grab their friends and head for any cover they can find. Kids are a lot smarter and logical than many people give them credit for. They will run this through their heads and look for creative ways to seek cover and get out of harms way. Is is something all kids should engage in? Probably not, but those that are willing and able should. No different than those who are old enough to get our CHL and learn the proper way to carry and protect ourselves, even if that means we are outgunned and end up running for the hills.

jmra wrote:

mojo84 wrote:I understand. When our guys did it, there were very few teachers, some administrators and the only kids were from the local explorer post my son is in.

That sounds like a much better plan.

What's the difference with Explorer kids and high school kids that volunteer? Nothing.

jmra wrote:What exactly is a drill like this supposed to teach the participants? Seems to me many young minds full of mush would come out of this feeling like they needed "protection" whenever they were at school. I feel that way now (as I'm sure most people on this forum do) and I haven't been through such a drill.
What's the plan at your kids school? I bet it ain't good.

It will let those kids know they need to do whatever they can to protect themselves. It also will teach them that the cops can't do it all, so if it comes to legalizing teachers carrying in school (in Missouri), then these soon to be 18 year old's will be voters and have a voice in helping push the legislation to get extra security by arming those who can respond more rapidly.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:OK thats a relief-didn't see that. Note that the other school had indeed done that though.

Take a look at the city that did it. Cary, IL, suburb of Chicago. 'nuff said.

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

Keith B wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:I think if I found out they did that at my kid's school and the kids were part of it the lawsuit would be filed the next day.

Why? Kids had to volunteer for it. I am sure they had to have their parent's permission to participate. It was maybe a little over on the makeup, but it got the kids to realize this could be real.

Why are you sure they had their parent's permission?

Here is my backup for belief that they had permission from the parents.

There’s also a difference between using student actors, who are fully-debriefed volunteers, and involving all students in this kind of exercise. Cary-Grove High School in Cary, Ill., faced criticism from parents last year when they staged an active shooter drill, blanks and all, with the entire student body present. One concerned mother from Hartselle, Ala., started a petition on change.org against a planned active shooter drill that would have involved elementary school students.

“We would never do that,” says Lt. Binder. “Law enforcement agencies that do that are making a grave mistake. We’re not here to create panic or fear.”

Cedar Park Dad wrote:

Keith B wrote:

Cedar Park Dad wrote:I think if I found out they did that at my kid's school and the kids were part of it the lawsuit would be filed the next day.

Why? Kids had to volunteer for it. I am sure they had to have their parent's permission to participate. It was maybe a little over on the makeup, but it got the kids to realize this could be real.

Why are you sure they had their parent's permission?

Do you know they didn't?

Cedar Park Dad wrote:I think if I found out they did that at my kid's school and the kids were part of it the lawsuit would be filed the next day.

Why? Kids had to volunteer for it. I am sure they had to have their parent's permission to participate. It was maybe a little over on the makeup, but it got the kids to realize this could be real.

All the kids in it volunteered. I take away from it this from the article:

(One student said) “It’s so hard to hear all of [those gunshots] and not freak out,” she says. But “I’m actually happy I did do it because now I know what some of the kids who came out alive in Sandy Hook felt.” If there is a shooting, she says,she’ll be prepared and “not just stand there.”

But not everyone felt invigorated. Amy Venneman, who teaches English, says having the student actors there ratcheted it up to a different level. “When I saw all the kids just running and screaming down the hallway, it really hit home for me,” she says.

While it may be a very drastic approach with the theatrical makup, these kids and teachers have been involved in a drill that will help them prepare for something real. We have tornado and fire drills that teach the kids and teachers how to help protect themselves, why not active shooter drills?